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Thread: Millennials are morons

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    It is pretty amazing to hear new hires bitch about starting at $60K when they literally bring nothing to the table except a college degree.
    Engineering disciplines being an exception to that rule I believe.

  • #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    It is pretty amazing to hear new hires bitch about starting at $60K when they literally bring nothing to the table except a college degree.
    Literally bring nothing to the table?

    I call bull$#@! on that.

  • #253
    This is Finance in O&G. I don't know what other disciplines are starting at.

  • #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    It is pretty amazing to hear new hires bitch about starting at $60K when they literally bring nothing to the table except a college degree.
    I've been out if college for 14 years and never been paid 60k a year.

  • #255
    Quote Originally Posted by OnBoard View Post
    Lots of my sons and daughters tell me about their starting salaries and many start at more the some people make after a 25 year career.
    Are you Jim Bob Duggar or something?

  • #256
    Quote Originally Posted by OnBoard View Post
    Lots of my sons and daughters tell me about their starting salaries and many start at more the some people make after a 25 year career.
    Could be and it could be entirely justified. Depends on the job and expertise.

    There are a lot of 25-year veterans out there who are worthless.

  • #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorTexasFan View Post
    Are you Jim Bob Duggar or something?
    heh heh, no but the daughter has lots of friends who we've been around most of their lives. The son is in college now and we're pretty involved with him and his group. so we've seen a fair number of kids.

  • #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castyourhops View Post
    Could be and it could be entirely justified. Depends on the job and expertise.

    There are a lot of 25-year veterans out there who are worthless.
    Well, I'm talking in generalities here..

  • #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Castyourhops View Post
    Literally bring nothing to the table?

    I call bull$#@! on that.
    Do they bring more than $60K worth? I didn't think so.

  • #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    Do they bring more than $60K worth? I didn't think so.
    So they do bring something to the table?

    So what's your beef? What's your solution? Are these private companies which are paying these salaries?
    Last edited by Castyourhops; 10-23-2015 at 11:20 AM.

  • #261
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    Every younger generation sucks compared to the previous ones. According to the previous ones.

    And yet the world keeps on moving forward.

  • #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Castyourhops View Post
    So they do bring something to the table?

    So what's your beef? What's your solution? Are these private companies who are paying these salaries?
    My beef is that they're getting paid a generous salary for someone with zero experience...and still bitch. How about putting in at least a few years before pissing and moaning about your pay.

  • #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    My beef is that they're getting paid a generous salary for someone with zero experience...and still bitch. How about putting in at least a few years before pissing and moaning about your pay.
    They just need to get off your lawn.

    Got it.

  • #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    My beef is that they're getting paid a generous salary for someone with zero experience...and still bitch. How about putting in at least a few years before pissing and moaning about your pay.
    I know lots of youngsters who are or would be thrilled to be making $60K right out of college. It's the ones being offered $30K are the ones grumbling and its mostly fear of being unable to pay student loans and for decent housing and starting a family. Another criticism that keeps rearing its head here is when youngsters complain about not being able to move up. If their stuck at 30K for 5 years, they damn well should be looking to move on if the company's not rewarding them for their time and effort. That's not entitlement, that's being stuck at a $#@!ty job.

  • #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Castyourhops View Post
    They just need to get off your lawn.

    Got it.
    I don't think many would consider me an old timer.

    I always felt I was paid very well when I started 10 years ago considering I had zero industry knowledge at the time. It takes time to learn about the business and add meaningful contributions. I really don't feel like that is an outrageous opinion.

  • #266
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    Millennials are morons

    Quote Originally Posted by Duck of Death View Post
    I've been out if college for 14 years and never been paid 60k a year.
    sounds like you aren't very good at whatever it is you do.

  • #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnBoard View Post
    Yeah I agree median income has leveled off for many.

    The son has a computer engineering degree coming up in the spring. He was offered $80K by Capital one, but has a 4 year commission tied to the Air Force. He interned there this past summer. $1K signing bonus (after taxes) and they paid hime $15k for a 3 month stint. That's not a leveled of income in my opinion. Lots of my sons and daughters tell me about their starting salaries and many start at more the some people make after a 25 year career.
    its the fault of the 25 year person for not levering their position not the new hire. Company loyalty is very low, and that is evident by the salary benefits to switching jobs every 3-5 years as opposed to having long term employment. I learned this at 20-21 that I had to switch jobs to advance or get pay bumps (and be ready to follow through).

  • #268
    Nothing to add, but I hate that millenials refer to themselves as millenials like they're some monolithic special demographic snowflake.

  • #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    I don't think many would consider me an old timer.

    I always felt I was paid very well when I started 10 years ago considering I had zero industry knowledge at the time. It takes time to learn about the business and add meaningful contributions. I really don't feel like that is an outrageous opinion.
    Old-timerism is more a state of mind than age.

    But what's your "solution"? Set up a government agency to regulate starting salaries?

  • #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    sounds like you aren't very good at whatever it is you do.
    I'm very good at it, and am paid market rate. Companies apparently assign a lesser value to analytical chemists than accountants.

    Wasn't it you that had some money issues a couple years ago?
    Last edited by Duck of Death; 10-23-2015 at 11:39 AM.

  • #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Castyourhops View Post
    Old-timerism is more a state of mind than age.

    But what's your "solution"? Set up a government agency to regulate starting salaries?
    The market dictates the salary. If that's $60K, I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with the bitching about it by someone with zero experience.

  • #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck of Death View Post
    Wasn't it you that had some money issues a couple years ago?
    yeah, when i was out of work for 7 months following a year of making nothing while working for a start up. someone w/ a college degree and 14 years in the professional workforce should be making north of $60k.

  • #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    yeah, when i was out of work for 7 months following a year of making nothing while working for a start up. someone w/ a college degree and 14 years in the professional workforce should be making north of $60k.
    Trust me, I'm paid market rate. I guess I could move to new Jersey and make 80k but no thanks. Got a 10k signing bonus earlier this year to take a new job, but the salary is in the 50s. Might get to 60 with annual bonus, but no guarantee.

    I could go into management and get there, but not if I stay in the lab.

    Oh, and my first job out of school paid 36k per year. In 2002.
    Last edited by Duck of Death; 10-23-2015 at 11:55 AM.

  • #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Castyourhops View Post
    But what's your "solution"? Set up a government agency to regulate starting salaries?
    Why must everything have a solution? Why can't people bitch about other people without there having to be a "solution"?

  • #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar Danneskj÷ld View Post
    Why must everything have a solution? Why can't people bitch about other people without there having to be a "solution"?
    because cloak roomers venture out of their dungeon and try and paint everything into a political corner

  • #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by destroya View Post
    Nothing to add, but I hate that millenials refer to themselves as millenials like they're some monolithic special demographic snowflake.
    You should have stopped after the third word because you ended up making one of the most nonsensical posts of all time.

    Yeah buddy, millennials are the first generation to refer to themselves using a demographic group nickname.

    Jesus.

  • #277
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    I have a friend who is a rock star consultant in ecommerce/marketing/CRM etc. She gets brought in by everyone from VCs to multi-billion $ corps when things are in bad shape and need urgent fixing.

    She was telling me recently about a luxury retailer she met with not long ago. They were bought out by a Private Equity shop that specializes in the sector a while back, but are struggling because they say they don't have the scale to compete with LVMH and the big boys in their space. Their ecommerce operations were a mess, and she met with the partner whose portfolio company it was, the CEO and all of the relevant department heads and senior managers. Apparently, one of the managers was leaving for another job, and his entire department, consisting of "creative" female Millenials, were claiming that they didn't need to be managed, were chafing under the "rigid structure" of rules and deadlines yadda yadda, and ergo did not want the guy who was leaving to be replaced because they could handle their own $#@! (despite many of them having issues with being hours late arriving at the office consistently etc.)

    She said management was scared that the Millenials would quit en masse with the holiday season approaching, so they wanted to handle the situation with kid gloves. They put her in a room with the entire team of Millenials and she said she was getting bombarded by stupid, entitled questions. When she met with the CEO and private equity partner afterwards and they asked her what she would do, she said she would lay down the law, but handle it in a considered manner- but make them understand that they had to be responsible and accountable etc. or there would be consequences. They asked her what she would do if it didn't work- the tardy ones had been talked to umpteen times and still came in two hours late and such. She said, "I'd fire one or two of the ones that were not getting the message, that tends to get everyone else's attention."

    They got scared and told her that they didn't think they could risk such a direct approach and decided to promote from within instead of bringing in a fixer. And you wonder why they are getting their asses kicked by their competitors (this is a company with hundreds of stores and 9 figures in sales, not some small start-up.)

    That "I know everything I need to know" attitude is definitely something that I see more often in Millenials. Sure, you have always had your free spirits and your entrepreneurs and your geniuses/Mavericks who didn't need to be told what to do, but it's the young, corporate types now who think they are ALL special snowflakes too and don't need to defer to people with years or decades more experience (see thread where some Millenial Shagster in finance was bitching about being paid less than his colleagues who had years more experience than him.)

    The smartest 1-2%, maybe 10% have always gotten away with that kind of attitude. The problem now is that the grade inflation, not hurting a child's feelings by letting them fail bull$#@! has created a world where 90% of the Millenials THINK they are in the top 1% of the workforce, even the idiots.

  • #278
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    ^^^So basically the non millennials in your story, the ones in the power positions, are giant pussies who are unable to do their job effectively, and thus run an under performing company. That is supposed to be an indictment of Millennials?

  • #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fico View Post
    ^^^So basically the non millennials in your story, the ones in the power positions, are giant pussies who are unable to do their job effectively, and thus run an under performing company. That is supposed to be an indictment of Millennials?
    There are plenty of old idiots too! The guys with the money in this deal were born into it, it was grandpa who made the family billions.

    But in thirty years of being an entrepreneur and being in finance/VC/private equity etc., and having heard years of "war stories" from my mentors covering another half century of business deals, I have NEVER heard of an entire department of creatives claiming that they "don't need to be managed." THAT is 100% an indictment of Millenials.

  • #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    The market dictates the salary. If that's $60K, I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with the bitching about it by someone with zero experience.
    I really would love to meet these people you claim are bitching at 60k. I just completed my MPA from one of the top programs in the nation. Those of us getting jobs at $60k+ are all ecstatic. The rest are frustrated, and understandably so, based on the cost of living. Many are being offered jobs between 35-40k in the private sector...Some are being offered less in the public or nonprofit sector. Check out Austin and tell me what kind of life you're going to lead with student debt and that salary.

  • #281
    ^^^^^
    This. I haven't seen anyone bitching about 60K or even 50K. I know people ten years into work that recently got bumped to 60K and are happy.

  • #282
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    Damn, send me resumes of these people with 10+ years of experience that will be happy with $60k. In my experience, everyone wants 6 figures, and they are worth maybe 75% of that. I blame big companies that inflate salaries for mediocre people.

  • #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Pete's Mustache View Post
    ^^^^^
    This. I haven't seen anyone bitching about 60K or even 50K. I know people ten years into work that recently got bumped to 60K and are happy.
    Which is why it pissed me off so much when I heard it.

  • #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by ousuxndallas View Post
    Damn, send me resumes of these people with 10+ years of experience that will be happy with $60k. In my experience, everyone wants 6 figures, and they are worth maybe 75% of that. I blame big companies that inflate salaries for mediocre people.
    What profession. Finance/accounting, I'd believe it. They seem to make a very good living for doing arithmetic all day.

  • #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Duck of Death View Post
    What profession. Finance/accounting, I'd believe it. They seem to make a very good living for doing arithmetic all day.
    You'd be surprised how little arithmetic is involved in finance/accounting. It's mostly booking numbers, tying out balances, explaining variances, budgeting, etc. I guess you add and subtract some. The old assumption that accountants need to be good at math is mostly BS.

  • #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Pete's Mustache View Post
    ^^^^^
    This. I haven't seen anyone bitching about 60K or even 50K. I know people ten years into work that recently got bumped to 60K and are happy.
    Wat.

    People with college degrees? I guess I'm an entitled millennial then.

  • #287
    Yeah, I would not be happy at $60K with 10 years. I guess it depends on your degree and industry though.

  • #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    The market dictates the salary. If that's $60K, I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with the bitching about it by someone with zero experience.
    I made 70k last year with less than 5 years experience. OT got cut so im looking at about 60k this year

  • #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShouldaMarriedAStripper View Post
    There are plenty of old idiots too! The guys with the money in this deal were born into it, it was grandpa who made the family billions.

    But in thirty years of being an entrepreneur and being in finance/VC/private equity etc., and having heard years of "war stories" from my mentors covering another half century of business deals, I have NEVER heard of an entire department of creatives claiming that they "don't need to be managed." THAT is 100% an indictment of Millenials.
    For every problem with employees , how many problems are there in management? Who hired these people, groomed them, reviewed them year to year, gave them realistic goals, etc? Maybe they've been doing the job already. If they haven't, and are still there, en masse, as you say, is that their fault?

  • #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by ousuxndallas View Post
    Damn, send me resumes of these people with 10+ years of experience that will be happy with $60k. In my experience, everyone wants 6 figures, and they are worth maybe 75% of that. I blame big companies that inflate salaries for mediocre people.
    L O $#@!ing L. Companies these days try very very hard to not pay people what they are worth.

  • #291
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    Your most recent post makes me think you probably already realized this, but this story sounds like a lot more like you being disappointed in losing a young employee that you liked and was a valuable asset to your company, as opposed to some fitting illustration of the work ethic of an entire generation.
    Absolutely. I invested a lot of time in him from recruiting to internship to employment. It stung then and stings now. I associated that with an entire generation which was only partly true. I was pissed at losing him, but I also still feel like his attitude was somewhat indicative of the generation as a whole.

    It can be both, justifiably. Basically, it's one thing to realize you want an easier life and value other things. It's another to be arrogant enough to think you can have both a 40 hour work week and own a couple businesses or move up within one etc.
    This is what surprised me the most. For six months, I had the perception that his desire was to bust his ass and work his way up. I have plenty of employees that put in their 40 hours, go home and drink a beer and don't worry about $#@!. But, those are the guys that will always be making an hourly wage. He showed the potential to put in that extra effort to separate himself from the pack. The fact that he thinks he can still be a business rockstar while putting in minimal effort is what surprised me the most.

    Sounds like you had a great employee who was suffering from burnout and was too young to see that "this too shall pass".

    Imo, you missed a great opportunity to help this guy out: mentor him, cut him some slack, build him up.

    To "not even remotely try to talk him out of it"? Not sure that was the correct tactic.
    Good point. And, I've been considering asking him to change his mind. But the feel of the conversation was that the ship had sailed. I think I missed the opportunity to mentor him and I did put too much on his plate too fast. That's on me. And I'll own it.

    Mitch, just curious, what did you pay this guy? Pm if you want.
    $42K/yr for first six months. Company vehicle, phone, laptop, benefits, vacation. He was set to get a raise to $54K/yr Dec 1 as per his employment agreement plus becoming eligible for a variable comp plan that can add 10-30% of base salary.

    Can we talk about having two MitchCumsteens on here? This is unseemly.
    No $#@!. I couldn't have picked a pseudonym of an otherwise obsolete poster, right?

  • #292
    asshat ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas Shaggy Silver Club ousuxndallas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayden_horn View Post
    L O $#@!ing L. Companies these days try very very hard to not pay people what they are worth.
    I have been in the market for supply chain people, and the O&G industry has very mediocre people making $120-140k. It is mind bottling.

  • #293
    O&G pays well. Downside is there are massive layoffs every five years or so.

  • #294
    asshat Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death probably preboards planes Duck of Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ousuxndallas View Post
    I have been in the market for supply chain people, and the O&G industry has very mediocre people making $120-140k. It is mind bottling.
    Yeah, you can probably clean out tank trucks for that pay in some places right now. But it won't last, and most if those idiots spend it as fast as they make it on giant trucks, guns, drugs, and whores so they'll be hurting when it goes away, and there will be good deals to be had on used trucks, boats, and weapons.

    I used to live next to a guy that is a former Louisiana cop with next to no education who quit to work for his buddy's wire line company and has been making 300k for the last few years.
    Last edited by Duck of Death; 10-23-2015 at 07:54 PM.

  • #295
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchCumsteen View Post
    $42K/yr for first six months. Company vehicle, phone, laptop, benefits, vacation. He was set to get a raise to $54K/yr Dec 1 as per his employment agreement plus becoming eligible for a variable comp plan that can add 10-30% of base salary.
    Was he a pe?

    We are having to pay guys straight out of school north of 50k for that.

  • #296
    bunghole Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails Shaggy Bronze Club Spaulding Smails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
    Was he a pe?

    We are having to pay guys straight out of school north of 50k for that.
    Nope. Construction science. We're a construction/service company.

  • #297
    Pe as in project engineer, not professional engineer.

    We are also a construction company.

  • #298
    thanks obama jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt Definitely Shaggy upper class jt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    Yeah, I would not be happy at $60K with 10 years. I guess it depends on your degree and industry though.
    not sure how anyone 30+yo can live on that. as far as i'm concerned, that's the floor for survivability. happiness lives at $80k+

  • #299
    asshat NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop Definitely Shaggy upper class NorthLoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    not sure how anyone 30+yo can live on that. as far as i'm concerned, that's the floor for survivability. happiness lives at $80k+
    ok tropheus

  • #300
    Quote Originally Posted by jt View Post
    not sure how anyone 30+yo can live on that. as far as i'm concerned, that's the floor for survivability. happiness lives at $80k+
    Not sure if serious...

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