right back at you. how does an adult in america live on less than $60k?
right back at you. how does an adult in america live on less than $60k?
I could do it pretty easily by myself. Would suck with a family. That said, plenty of families do it.
This thread has devolved into a weird dialogue about salary, so I think I can add something along those lines:
Having been a "$30k millionaire" in my early/mid 20's, I was always confused with how people thought you could have an entry level luxury car, an urban apartment in uptown or whatever, spend $100 a night on bar tabs, $2-300 on weekends, go on random trips and carry an acute cocaine habit along for the ride on only $30k. I was making like 70-80k when I was a kid (sales gonna sale) and would still occasionally overdraft my bank account.
$30k millionaire seems like it would be more living with your parents in a $#@!ty suburb and buying a 12 pack of domestic light beer and maybe eating at texas road house once a month.
But yeah at 30+, regardless of having dependents, that should've been enough time for someone to have it all figured out and making more than $60K.
Why in the past (or in the past generations) was there such a small amount of people thinking that way as opposed to the glut of millennials? Or, asked another way, Why was there so few people in the past (or in past generations) interested in sacrificing the "comforts" of middle-class money and security? If I didn't have personal experience in this exercise, I would say it has to be an issue of values and worldview and this is just an interesting study in how these things change with time and cultures.
But as someone who has had the high risk tolerance and been involved with 3 start-ups, done the equity partner in early stage organizations and sacrificed short term material wants in the interest of the audacious dream of building a business to obtain "$#@! you" money, which itself was born from an improperly and shoddily built ego, I can tell you in a nutshell my thoughts on the matter:
"$#@! it. If I fail, I can always go get a 9-5 and grind it out for 30-40 years like every other schlub. But if I succeed..."
People have done it for years. Get the 39 month lease on the 318 for 300 a month or whatever, and run up 50k in cc debt over a year or two, all on fun. Pay minimums...300 more. Do it until your minimums get out of hand. Then ask family for help, then bankruptcy. But what a fun 2 years.
A single person can live in Austin on 30k. It's a paycheck to paycheck life, but it's not ramen and goodwill. The biggest downside is that you can't really save anything.
This type of lifestyle is pretty common in places like DC, where you have kids obsessed with conspicuous consumption, whether or not they can afford it.
Either way, the chicken always comes home to roost eventually.
Last edited by Rocko20; 10-23-2015 at 09:36 PM.
Also yuppies shouldn't be confused with 30K millionaires. Yuppies are young professionals who can actually afford their lifestyle without credit card debt or daddy co-signing the apartment lease. Now whether they choose to rack up debt is up to them but again the difference is that a yuppie actually has money while a 30K millionaire doesn't.
And to confuse you even more, 30K millionaires often give the appearance of being a yuppie.
A yuppie (/ˈjʌpi/; short for "young urban professional" or "young upwardly-mobile professional")is defined by one source as being "a young college-educated adult who has a job that pays a lot of money and who lives and works in or near a large cithttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YuppieYuppism... is not definable entirely by income or class. Rather, it is a late-20th century cultural phenomenon of self-absorbed young professionals, earning good pay, enjoying the cultural attractions of sophisticated urban life and thought, and generally out of touch with, indeed antithetical to, most of the challenges and concerns of a far less well-off and more parochial Middle America. For the yuppie male a well-paying job in tech, law, finance, academia or consulting in a cultural hub, hip fashion, cool appearance, studied poise, elite education, proper recreation and fitness and general proximity to liberal-thinking elites, especially of the more rarefied sort in the arts, are the mark of a real man.
Last edited by Rocko20; 10-23-2015 at 11:33 PM.
Got some salary talk going on in here. I'm an 80s baby living in a crappy town but after making the move I've doubled my take home basically. It has it's ups and downs. Good news is I make enough money to travel on the weekends so that's good. The career outlook is somewhat good long term assuming I don't get laid off ha!
Look, if you're in your 40s with kids and have a ton of mounting debt, childcare expenses, etc. and prospects are bad, then yeah- you do have to do $#@! you don't like doing in order to get to the place you want to be.
Right now you're assuming he wouldn't do that. Everything you said about him points toward that he would.
What he's doing now is a step toward something better for him- trust me.
Last edited by KaiserSoze; 10-24-2015 at 12:43 AM.
Companies go belly up all the time and have since the beginning of commerce. Incompetent management has been/is the primary cause in many cases. In the past, as a lower level employee, you'd see people either hunker down and be in denial and just do their job, or you'd see the savvy ones see the writing on the wall and jump ship. It is the phenomenon of an entire department of 20 people, all of whom are sub-manager level creatives, thinking that "we know what we are doing, we don't need management and supervision" that is unheard of in the past, and I think it is directly attributable to the entitlement thing (and yes, much of that is the fault of the parents, school administrators and preceding generations that changed the educational system/parenting norms and created these self-absorbed, entitled Millenials.)
CTCJ, I have no issue with being a dreamer, or reaching for the brass ring when you are young. What I am saying is that only the top X percent of bright, motivated etc. people CAN succeed as Mavericks, entrepreneurs and such, and as I wrote above, the problem is that people who are NOT making that choice to reach for the brass ring are acting like they are already proven to be part of the minority who can get away with that attitude. An entire department of twenty somethings at a biggish company that is struggling should NOT feel like they are that special: A. They chose to work for said corporate entity and not pursue a dream and B. The company isn't doing well so I don't see why you'd think you're a rock star individually, let alone en masse. Capitalism is a dog eat dog system, you can't have 90% of people being part of the 10% of top wage earners. The corporate world is a hierarchy, you can't have 90% of your employees be more "special" than their peers.
The difference is not that more Millenials dare to dream. The difference is that the ones who have not chosen to do things that allow them to pursue their dreams STILL believe they deserve to be treated differently because they are special. You can't go into an existing system and expect to be treated differently/better just because you feel like you deserve to be... That sense of entitlement in a huge percentage of youth today is something that didn't exist in the past.
1) checks ARE archaic
2) i regret to inform you that letter was written humerously
Just Venmo the money to the one guy named [redacted] who has a check book.
1. I agree with her!
2. I used Venmo last week!
3. I'm still $#@!ing old.
I never understood why use money orders or checks. Yes, I'm a millenial
for the record I don't consider myself a millennial. I'm in that small age range that's disputed. I'll never bow to the dark side.
Hell, I never heard of a money order till I got a ticket in West Texas, and that week I also found out about the bank version of'em.
$500/month goes into my IRA/savings plus I pay an extra $120/month on my mortgage. I go out, but not every week. I've got $10k in the bank right now and $118k in savings. It's not hard if you're smart and don't live beyond your means. Also don't get married or have kids. That's the game changer.
Lulz at blaming millennials for ruining American banks
Not sure if on topic, but speaking of money orders and checks, the one thing I don't really understand is the purpose of traveler's cheques. I once went on a vacation with a guy when I was younger whose mom insisted on us getting American Express Travelers Cheques, but nowhere we went even accepted them. I was utterly befuddled and remain so to this day.
Yeah if that landlord will only take paper checks, screw him.
Shaggy, the point isn't whether she's right about Venmo or checks being archaic vestiges of a bygone era. The point is the way she presents her case. I'm right, $#@! you. Sums it up.
I have rental property. If one of my renters proposed this to me the way she did, I would happily tell her go $#@! yourself, though sadly not in those words. If on the other hand she had come to me and asked me, not told me, but asked, and showed me how cool and simple it is and so forth, yeah I would probably still tell her go $#@! yourself, but there would have at least been a chance to change my old dusty cobweb covered has been mind.
The fact that she is now of adult age and still doesn't know that not insulting the person on the other side of the transaction, the person that you want to do something for you, is the point.
And FWIW I would be particularly against Venmo because they're owned by Paypal. Ebay took Paypal and ran it into the ground. I guess that's no surprise since they also managed to run Ebay into the ground.
The fact that this is a adult age person that hasn't learned a little humility says her parents failed her, and probably 16 years of schooling failed her.
The benefit of the travellers' cheques over cash was twofold. First, it was obviously more secure--if they got stolen, American Express would replace them. But second, when you exchanged them for the local currency, you got a better exchange rate because American Express ate part of the commission.
Now, I don't think there's much of a point to them when traveling to Europe or Asia. Perhaps some other place still hasn't widely adopted credit cards, but I can't imagine where that place might be.
I will acknowledge, however, that the worldwide instant transfer of money electronically is making even that obsolete.
Before you leave your trip you visit your financial institution and get 1 x $1,000, 4 x $500, and 10 x $100, travelers cheques. The 4K is removed from you account and given to AmEx or whoever they give you the cheques and you endorse them. They are now "certified checks" "bounce proof" checks in round numbers usable as near universal currency around the world. If they are lost or stolen they couldn't be used unless the thief can forge a matching signature. Foreign vendors don't have to worry about Joe Smith writing a hot check out of his First National Bank of Little $#@!sVille account. If Joe Smith gets robbed or losses is wallet on the beach he can walk down the road and cash his reserve $1000 check he kept hidden in his suit case and not have to worry about internationally calling FNB of LSV at 4am on a Saturday so he could have money to eat over the weekend.
Certified Check - funds held by your institution in an intermediate account until deposit. (Written in specific amounts) (only as good as the institution's name)
Cashier's Check - funds removed by your institution from your account and issued from their account (written in specific amounts) (only as good as the institution's name)
Money order - funds removed by a 3rd party from you account and issued from their account. (written in specific amounts) (as good as brand name Western Union / Wells Fargo / Pinkerton Agency / AmEx)
Travelers Check - funds removed by a 3rd party from your account and issued from their account. (Written in even denominations) (as good as brand name)
My mom is 80 years old and still uses checks and it's excruciatingly painful to help her buy groceries because while she's filling the stupid thing out, five normal people with debit cards are waiting in line behind her. I've tried to talk her into one but I've given up.
Otoh, good tenants are hard to find. If this chick pays on time and takes care of the place, I'd oblige her in every way I can.
For a few years, I lived in a complex that took cc without an additional fee. That was awesome.
Given what you said about the benefits of these traveler's cheques and their added security, why would they increasingly (or in my case ~2003 unanimously) NOT be accepted as forms of payment overseas? I can see adding the benefit of credit/debit cards, but why would you actively move to disallow something secure like this that was formerly not only allowed but preferred?
The guy I traveled with had to bring them all home and I assume go through the hassle of getting refunded and educating his mom.
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