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Thread: USMNT/CONCACAF World Cup Qualification 2018

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by knoxtnhorn View Post
    Agree. Just look at what Tim Howard did. Love the guy. Don't want him off the team. But, he did do exactly what Donovan did and, yet, not a negative word has been said about it from JK. Not sure if everyone remembers this or not, but JK's son put out a tweet last year basically laughing at LD for being left off the squad. This tells me that JK does play favorites and he had something personal against LD.
    You're there to put the best product on the field, not be a little bitch because you don't like someone.
    To me it's obvious: Landy acts like a bitch or a diva a lot of the time. I think Jurgen had a low opinion of him at Bayern, thought, "This guy is the best player in America?", didn't approve of LD's career choices, and finally just hates his personality. We can act like this doesn't matter, or that JK is being petty, but none of us would have done anything differently. When you can't stand a guy or his whiny attitude, and you don't want to have to go to work every day and have to see his face, you keep him off the team if he isn't vital to the squad. This whole, "OUR BEST EVER COUNTER ATTACKING PLAYER" deal has come after-the fact, but I seriously doubt LD would have made any difference anyway. Last I checked the rest of the WC roster were all still active professionals; LD was in the very twilight of his career anyway. He was playing like crap at the time, he was out of shape, and the boss hates him. So what. That we're still talking about this is ridiculous, and it's only been brought up because of how terrible we are right now, as if that's a valid reason to play revisionist history with the WC roster.
    Last edited by Derka Derka; 10-17-2015 at 09:50 AM.

  • #52
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    Johnson starting for BMG this afternoon. Guess he's a little bitch after all

  • #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derka Derka View Post
    To me it's obvious: Landy acts like a bitch or a diva a lot of the time. I think Jurgen had a low opinion of him at Bayern, thought, "This guy is the best player in America?", didn't approve of LD's career choices, and finally just hates his personality. We can act like this doesn't matter, or that JK is being petty, but none of us would have done anything differently. When you can't stand a guy or his whiny attitude, and you don't want to have to go to work every day and have to see his face, you keep him off the team if he isn't vital to the squad. This whole, "OUR BEST EVER COUNTER ATTACKING PLAYER" deal has come after-the fact, but I seriously doubt LD would have made any difference anyway. Last I checked the rest of the WC roster were all still active professionals; LD was in the very twilight of his career anyway. He was playing like crap at the time, he was out of shape, and the boss hates him. So what. That we're still talking about this is ridiculous, and it's only been brought up because of how terrible we are right now, as if that's a valid reason to play revisionist history with the WC roster.
    Just about every point you made re: LD's form and fitness has been disproven. A coach needs to be above personal feelings in order to put the best product out there. Klinsmann failed in that regard then and he's doing it still.

  • #54
    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingHorn View Post
    Just about every point you made re: LD's form and fitness has been disproven. A coach needs to be above personal feelings in order to put the best product out there. Klinsmann failed in that regard then and he's doing it still.
    Disproven how?

    This is what Landon Donovan looked like in early June last year.



    Let me help you out a little.



    Does this look to be the shape of a tip top professional soccer player who has been treating his fitness seriously?.

    I like Landon and perhaps Klinsmann should have had him on the team. But it so he would have been a marginal player, it certainly wasnt some sort of preposterous snub. We're debating spot 22 or 23 vs 24. If such a decision even makes your top ten list of issues you have with Klinsmann, then he is doing a hell of a job.

  • #55
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    So glad this conversation is back.

  • #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipperj View Post
    So glad this conversation is back.
    Thoughts on Dempsey?

  • #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyGlass View Post
    Disproven how?

    This is what Landon Donovan looked like in early June last year.



    Let me help you out a little.



    Does this look to be the shape of a tip top professional soccer player who has been treating his fitness seriously?.

    I like Landon and perhaps Klinsmann should have had him on the team. But it so he would have been a marginal player, it certainly wasnt some sort of preposterous snub. We're debating spot 22 or 23 vs 24. If such a decision even makes your top ten list of issues you have with Klinsmann, then he is doing a hell of a job.
    That picture is from April....want to try again?

    And y'all are missing the point. The point was we have a coach who doesn't have a cohesive plan and simply picks or doesn't pick players based on personal feelings instead of what is best for the team. As someone pointed out, Howard has just done the exact same thing with nothing close to the same consequences.

  • #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingHorn View Post
    That picture is from April....want to try again?

    And y'all are missing the point. The point was we have a coach who doesn't have a cohesive plan and simply picks or doesn't pick players based on personal feelings instead of what is best for the team. As someone pointed out, Howard has just done the exact same thing with nothing close to the same consequences.
    No, the point is that some of you have a theory about JK's team selection methods and you're using a poor, outdated, outlier example as proof that your theory is fact. LD's case is different from any other player's for many obvious reasons. Howard is still the starting keeper of a top 8 EPL club and has been for a long time. Howard doesn't whine, and moan, and generally act like a girl. Howard put on the best performance of any USA player in the World Cup, and one of the best performances of any player from any team, period. Stop pointing to a unique situation featuring a guy with many outwardly dislikable qualities and a prior history with the coach as "proof" that JK picks his teams solely on who he likes most as a person.
    Last edited by Derka Derka; 10-17-2015 at 03:34 PM.

  • #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derka Derka View Post
    No, the point is that some of you have a theory about JK's team selection methods and you're using a poor, outdated, outlier example as proof that your theory is fact. LD's case is different from any other player's for many obvious reasons. Howard is still the starting keeper of a top 8 EPL club and has been for a long time. Howard doesn't whine, and moan, and generally act like a girl. Howard put on the best performance of any USA player in the World Cup, and one of the best performances of any player from any team, period. Stop pointing to a unique situation featuring a guy with many outwardly dislikable qualities and a prior history with the coach as "proof" that JK picks his teams solely on who he likes most as a person.
    Stuff like this is why I cannot take you seriously. Once again, you have missed the point. I even pointed out other players as examples of his lack of any methodology or logic with regard to lineup choices but you've honed in on the LD example because you can't stand the guy for whatever personal reasons you have. That's fine. You have done nothing to disprove the overall point being made.

    But you're right, Derka, klinsmann has been doing an outstanding job. Stupid me.

  • #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipperj View Post
    So glad this conversation is back.
    This.

  • #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingHorn View Post
    Stuff like this is why I cannot take you seriously. Once again, you have missed the point. I even pointed out other players as examples of his lack of any methodology or logic with regard to lineup choices but you've honed in on the LD example because you can't stand the guy for whatever personal reasons you have. That's fine. You have done nothing to disprove the overall point being made.

    But you're right, Derka, klinsmann has been doing an outstanding job. Stupid me.

    Jesus dude, and you accuse me of missing the point. All I'm talking about is the Landon Donovan issue. Repeat that last sentence again: all I am talking about is the Landon Donovan issue. The beginning, middle, and end of everything I am posting is to tell people like *you* that the LD example doesn't fit with your argument, and to stop using it. I'm not arguing whether or not JK plays favorites, I'm pointing out why the LD example is an outlier, and *not* proof of your theory, or an applicable example.

    Also, the words in bold which have upset you so much are not my opinion of LD simply sprinkled into the post, they are actual reasons why JK doesn't like Landon, and why comparing Tim Howard and LD doesn't make sense. JK doesn't like his personality, he doesn't like his work ethic, he doesn't like his career choices; essentially, everything I just said in my last post.


    You then wrap it up by insinuating that I've said that JK is doing a great job. Okie dokie. You can't take me seriously because you can't read. That's rich.
    Last edited by Derka Derka; 10-17-2015 at 04:23 PM.

  • #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipperj View Post
    This.
    Totes.

  • #63
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    Lurking, before you even get a chance to bungle everything I've said again, I'll make it as simple as possible: JK's squad selections have made zero $#@!ing sense. He plays people out of position, he constantly starts people who are consistently invisible, he changes formations and personnel like nobody's business.

    All of that said, the LD example is not a good one, so stop bringing him up. You wanna talk about Altidore always getting to start, great; Fabian Johnson always playing out of position, sure; Timmy Chandler being involved at all, great. JK doesn't like LD, and LD doesn't like JK, and it's to the point where they can't work together, *especially* A)in the World Cup, and B) when we're talking about one of the last guy's to make the team. So stop bringing it up and pointing to it like it's some glaring example. It's not.
    Last edited by Derka Derka; 10-17-2015 at 04:32 PM.

  • #64
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    Can you guys start another thread to discuss LD vs Dempsey (neither of which is the best US player ever btw, that would be Howard).

    This thread is for US and CONCACAF quals. Not a JK bitchfest.

    K. Thx. Bye.

  • #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derka Derka View Post
    Lurking, before you even get a chance to bungle everything I've said again, I'll make it as simple as possible: JK's squad selections have made zero $#@!ing sense. He plays people out of position, he constantly starts people who are consistently invisible, he changes formations and personnel like nobody's business.

    All of that said, the LD example is not a good one, so stop bringing him up. You wanna talk about Altidore always getting to start, great; Fabian Johnson always playing out of position, sure; Timmy Chandler being involved at all, great. JK doesn't like LD, and LD doesn't like JK, and it's to the point where they can't work together, *especially* A)in the World Cup, and B) when we're talking about one of the last guy's to make the team. So stop bringing it up and pointing to it like it's some glaring example. It's not.
    1) I said my feelings on the matter started with LD. I don't know why people decided to jump only that one point. Whether you agree with it or not, it was a red flag for many people.

    2) my greater point was everything you listed in your first paragraph, so we're in agreement.

  • #66
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    Shut the $#@! up people.

  • #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipperj View Post
    Totes.
    Adorbs.

  • #68
    Whether he was out of shape or not he was still 100X better than gdamn Wondolowski. He easily could have come off the bench if he wasn't in 90-minute shape.
    A guy that "doesn't have it" anymore managed to score 8 goals in 10 games including the 2nd goal against Mexico in 2013. Can't tell me he no longer has "it" less than a year removed from this output.

    There was something personal going on whether it was 100% on LD or 100% on JK. This was evidenced by JK's son's tweet shortly after LD was cut. It really doesn't matter. The coach should put his feelings aside and put the best product on the field.

  • #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamjetFDO View Post
    Adorbs.
    I know, right!

  • #70
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    Excerpt from a recap of how all of Arsenal's loanees are faring this season:

    Gedion Zelalem is almost certainly off to the most productive start of the season. The young American has made five appearances for Rangers in league play and two cup appearances and quickly becoming one of Rangers most important attacking players. With two assists in his debut and a handful more since then, Zelalem has regularly displayed the attacking prowess that has Arsenal fans and United States national team fans so excited. His smooth dribbling and ability to pick out and make decisive passes in the final third have been key for Rangers. Playing in the Scottish Second division has also allowed Zelalem to work on his physicality, something he’ll need to continue to improve before he’s ready for the Premier League.

  • #71
    How good is he going to be? Honest question because about 3 years ago Altidore and Bacon were scoring 50 goals a season in Europe.

  • #72
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    The vision is there. He's also very calm at all times. On the ball, off the pitch, taking a penalty, he's very business like. He's more talented than any youth MF product I've seen from the USA. More skilled I should maybe say. We know the skill set is there, and now it's time to see what kind of player he becomes. I really like that he's getting meaningful minutes in a real league in front of a lot of fans. Also playing vs grown men is good. I'd say he projects to be an EPL player right now, but at what level I'm not sure. Becoming a real member of the Arsenal first team is probably a long shot, but who knows. If he keeps progressing at his current rate then we should know within two years what it's looking like.

  • #73
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    when was the last time we had a good striker, McBride in 06?

  • #74
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    Wow, i just noticed that Eric Lichaj is still playing in England at Nottingham Forest. I loved him at the end of Bradley's tenure before his injury sat him out over the transition to JK. Why the $#@! doesn't he get a longer look for the Nats. I know he had a trial during some friendlies or some crappy tournament or something, but we could $#@!ing use a versatile back (especially a LB). But his natural position is RB and we could use someone there too.

  • #75
    Depth chart for US with some gaps.

    http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/un...g?ICID=HP_BN_1

    A good article on Klinsmann. Lots of changes at the youth level. Makes a case for him as TD. Not so much as HC.

    http://americansoccernow.com/article...ctor-and-coach

  • #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainsubtext View Post
    Depth chart for US with some gaps.

    http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/un...g?ICID=HP_BN_1

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    Is Julian Green playing anywhere?

  • #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derka Derka View Post
    Is Julian Green playing anywhere?
    Pretty sure he's back with the bayern Munich reserves team in the 4th flight of the Bundesliga.

  • #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottlecap View Post
    Good god, that list is tough to read. Danny Williams being the choice for the future? Great, another central midfielder that accumulates a card a game with a $#@!ty challenge and then spends the rest of the 90 almost getting sent off while not completing over 60% of their passes even though most of them are sideways or backwards. Sounds great.

  • #80
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    This thread is depressing.

  • #81
    drt: His completion percentage would be a lot higher if you count the passes to the other team.

  • #82
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    Clearing this out from the "Unread" queue from the asian stock picks deleted spam.

  • #83
    1st qualifier is Nov 7th.

  • #84
    Werder Bremen says United States striker Aron Johannsson has undergone surgery on a hip problem and will be out for several weeks. Johannsson has been out since the end of September with a nerve problem in his right hip. He had the surgery in Berlin and will return to Bremen in the coming days to begin his rehab. Bremen's team doctor Philip Heitmann says ``conservative methods'' (of healing) could not get rid of the pain. Johannsson joined Bremen at the start of the season and has scored two goals in six appearances for the Bundesliga club.
    Cool. Our already thin striker pool is going to be thinner for these upcoming games.

  • #85
    Roster for St. Vincent and Grenadines
    GK: Guzan, Hamid, Howard.
    DF: Alvarado, Besler, Cameron, Johnson, Miazga, Orozco, Ream, Shea
    MF: Beckerman, Bradley, Diskerud, Jones, Nagbe, Yedlin
    FW: Altidore, Gordon, Morris, Wood, Zardes

    No Dempsey which is interesting.

    Yay - Matt Miazga, Darlington Nagbe and JoMo getting looks. Also good Fabian and Jurgen patched things up.

    Boo - Beckerman? Gordon? Really?

  • #86
    asshat Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club Harry J. Shaggy Bronze Club
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    oof, that midfield is so weak. Also, I'd take anyone, be it Carter-Vickers or Brooks or Hedges, over Alvarado. Dude hasn't even been playing for Club America at all this year. He sucks

  • #87
    God we $#@!ing have no talent.

  • #88
    Nagbe is the wild card in midfield. He struggled all year and then Portland moved him into the middle of their attack and he's been on the best run of his career for them right now so there's a 100 percent chance that if he plays in qualifying Klinsmann will move him back out wide.

  • #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by atllonghorn View Post
    Nagbe is the wild card in midfield. He struggled all year and then Portland moved him into the middle of their attack and he's been on the best run of his career for them right now so there's a 100 percent chance that if he plays in qualifying Klinsmann will move him back out wide.
    lol, so true and sad. Also, I thought for sure Nguyen was gonna get called in. $#@! creativity I guess

  • #90
    Good analysis on Nagbe who recently became a US citizen.

    Armchair Analyst: Darlington Nagbe gets the US call from Jurgen Klinsmann - and now what?

    Darlington Nagbe's call into the US national team for the upcoming World Cup qualifiers against St. Vincent & the Grenadines and Trinidad & Tobago didn't happen in a vacuum.

    Let's sum up:

    The US are in their worst in-CONCACAF run in decades, having gone winless in four straight home games vs. regional foes
    The US have out-shot only two of their last 10 opponents
    Nagbe is playing the best soccer of his career

    The Liberian-born midfielder (and we can and will refer to him only as "midfielder" from now on, not "attacker" or "winger") has flourished over the past month in a full-time, central midfield role. He's been able to consistently win second balls, consistently be a nuisance in passing lanes, and consistently make the sort of "right place, right time" plays that a No. 8 really needs to make.

    These were all questions at the start of October. Nagbe had been used primarily as a wide player with the Portland Timbers, flashing bits of breathtaking skill in between bouts of soul-crushing anonymity. He should be a better, more effective winger; he has speed on and off the ball, the ability to control the ball with his first touch that is, perhaps, unmatched in the US pool, and he is the most effective 1-v-1 player in MLS.

    Yet he's never offered off-the-ball penetration from that spot, which is the first duty of any true winger. He prefers to drift toward the play rather than extend the field away from it, which is why some fans have felt that his move to the center is overude.

    Getting a guy who completes nearly 90 percent of his passes more chances to do just that was a season-changing idea from the Portland braintrust. Add in the fact that Nagbe led the league in chances created from open play, and it's a pretty good correlation/causality argument about how Portland went from winning just once in six to their current five-game unbeaten run, a streak that has them on the precipice of a spot in the Western Conference Championship of the Audi 2015 MLS Cup Playoffs.

    Chance creation is just one of the problems the current USMNT face, though. Another is the haphazard way Klinsmann has them shuttling the ball from back-to-front, an issue born of the tactical (and personnel) instability inherent in the current regime.

    Klinsmann's ideal seems to be lining Kyle Beckerman up as a lone No. 6 in a diamond midfield, putting the possession initiation duties onto the shoulders of the RSL legend. But smart teams like Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama have consistently flooded that zone against lone holders, forcing Klinsmann to flatten out the diamond into more of a straight 4-4-2. That shift forces a disconnect between the midfield and backline, and now you're in longball country - unless Michael Bradley drops deep to help with initiation.

    But when that happens, guess what? Now you've got your main midfield chance creator (Bradley) 50 yards from the forward line trying to play through a midfield in which he's at a numerical disadvantage.

    Nagbe's presence, then, should facilitate a shift to the 4-3-3. Klinsmann can start Beckerman (or one of the other d-mids in the pool) as a No. 6, with Bradley and Nagbe as box-to-box runners also in central midfield. In theory this will cut down on midfield turnovers - that's the point of having three excellent passers in midfield, right? - while giving Beckerman protection against teams that try to overrun him.

    It also puts two guys in central midfield who can carry the ball forward at pace. Some of the best US moments of late have come when Bradley has gotten the ball on his foot and has a head of steam, simply cutting out defenders on the dribble.

    Nagbe can do the same thing, only faster. He covers ground like a rocketized gazelle:


    I'm not saying that Nagbe is the one-stop shop for fixing all the US problems. He's not going to dribble an entire defense like that on the regular, and neither is Bradley, and neither is anyone else in the US pool (or anyone's pool, save for a full-strength Argentina).

    But the threat of it, and Nagbe's security on the ball in completing useful passes, will force opposing defenses to collapse to him and subsequently open the flanks. The US have been suffocating from lack of space, and he should help them breathe.

    A few more notes:

    3. While Nagbe is an elite chance creator, he's not a creator of elite chances. Of the 121 open play chances he's created over the last two years, only three of them were "big" chances - chances that, by Opta's reckoning, should be put away. For some context: 12 of the 97 chances Diego Valeri has created in that time were big chances.

    So anyone expecting him to carve up the midfield with Valderrama-style through-balls or Donovan-like lay-offs shouldn't be holding their breath. Nagbe's not that kind of player.

    2. If Nagbe starts, and Bradley starts, and Klinsmann goes to the 4-3-3, that probably does not mean there's a starting midfield role for Jermaine Jones unless Klinsmann puts him or Bradley deep as the No. 6. Which is pretty much the definition of playing with fire.

    1. All of the above analysis is moot if Nagbe is started on the flank in any lineup or formation. There's no guarantee Klinsmann is seeing (or wanting) the central midfield Nagbe. He could very well be calling the kid in to play on the wing.

  • #91
    LOL. This coach is such a dumb$#@!.

    Let's see. "You must get minutes with your club team to play for the US." Unless you're Alvarado.
    "You must commit to the team 100%." Unless you take a year off (Howard) or half-ass it so much you're sent home early (Johnson).

    Altidore, Beckmerman, Gordon, and Orozco....again????

    Jesus what a cluster.

  • #92
    Jozy is 26 years old and 1 goal behind McBride for 4th highest goal scorer in US history. He's going to be on the team as long as he is healthy for the next 4-6 years. Deal with it.

  • #93
    Um, ok. Guess I'll deal with watching his lazy add lope lol over the field and duck out of 50/50 headers against guys 6 inches shorter than him. That'll show me.

  • #94
    "ass"

    I don't entirely dislike the guy. He's got the physical attributes but not the hustle, IMO. There's an obvious difference in effort when Wood, Zardes, or Morris is in there.

  • #95
    All of your criticisms of Jozy are well founded, but the US doesn't have a reliable option they know they can count on to replace him. Part of it has been the $#@! roster management by Klinsmann, but Wood and Morris have proven their worth as subs but not starters (due to lack of opportunity) and I think Zardes is a less talented Yedlin who is also better suited to come off the bench. Klinsmann needs to give Wood and Morris chances to start up top, but given how things are going the only newbie I expect to crack the starting lineup is maybe Nagbe.

  • #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by atllonghorn View Post
    All of your criticisms of Jozy are well founded, but the US doesn't have a reliable option they know they can count on to replace him.
    At this point, anybody willing to actually try would provide more than Jozy is providing. Sure, he's going to score goals here and there. The same would happen if the U.S. started you or I up top--eventually, we'd score. Look at Mexico with Oribe Peralta.

    Doesn't mean he's not garbage, though.

    Wood and Morris have earned a starting nod with their effort and efficiency. Zardes is a natural striker and has shown promise when playing up top; he's out of position in midfield and has a terrible first touch.

    Personally, I would've loved to have seen Dempsey paired with a fast, energetic option (i.e., Wood, Morris, or Zardes), but he either declined or wasn't called up. As others have noted, however, Dempsey's future is limited, so it would be nice to see more youth given a chance against weak CONCACAF competition. We know what Altidore can (and can't) do, so why he is on the roster is puzzling.
    Last edited by Braff Zacklin; 11-06-2015 at 08:41 PM.

  • #97
    I guess my complaint revolves around what Jozy brings to the table as opposed to the others. The problem I have is that he's a target forward without the desire. Imagine if Brian McBride never won balls in the air and constantly fell down when challenged on the ground. He would be entirely ineffective. If JA is going to be this player, he absolutely has to do the things he's built to do. That's his skillset. Win balls in the air, hold up play, and, occasionally, do something creative with the ball at your feet (this is the thing that I do give him a lot of credit for that few of our other options can do). If he can't do these things then I would pass the torch to a player that might have slightly less skill but more desire.

  • #98
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    Official FIFA rankings.

    If you're looking for the US just find the Cape Verde Islands and then keep scrolling, because we are two spots behind them.

  • #99
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    Not sure if this is the right thread for this... but no more 'headers' for US soccer youth:
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/10/health...ons/index.html

  • #100
    Let me guess. No slide tackling next. Then, shoulder-to-shoulder. Why don't we just get rid of the soccer ball and run through mom and dad tunnels instead?

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