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Thread: Let's talk about the 2016-17 Longhorn basketball team

  1. #1
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    Let's talk about the 2016-17 Longhorn basketball team

    No harm in starting some talk this early. And, if things go the way we expect them to, then next season could be a very interesting season featuring a team that doesn't resemble this one at all. Assuming that Taylor goes pro (very likely), and that Ridley doesn't get a redshirt (don't think he even wants one), this is what the lineup likely looks like:

    G- Roach
    G- Yancy
    G- Davis
    F- Cleare
    C- Banks

    F- Mack
    G- Young
    G- Jones
    F- Allen (maybe)

    and then......

    Maybe Jones starts over Yancy, or maybe Mack finds his way into the lineup, but that roster is young, is small, and is guard heavy. Not a great combo for playing in the Big XII. Who else is on our radar? Any transfers or Juco guys? We could use some muscle, and we could use another guy who's ready to play immediately. Hope we get that.

    We'd better appreciate this year while it's still here, because we lose a ton of big time players (Lammert, Taylor, Felix, Ibeh, and Ridley) after this season ends.

  • #2
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    i was thinking about this during the game last night when i double checked cleare's classification. we really are losing a $#@! ton. i love our freshmen and it looks like shaka is putting together a very good recruiting class, but it is extremely possible that next year's team will not be as good as this year's.

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    Hard for a really young team to compete for a title in this league. Hard for any team not based in Lawrence, frankly. Get some decent PG play out of someone and find some rebounding and I could see us making the tourney...but not without some angst along the way.

  • #4
    Shaka seems to be saving a roster spot for a transfer or JUCO. I bet we see at least 1 JUCO or transfer.

    Jones will also start from day one IMO.
    Last edited by TexasStrong12; 02-23-2016 at 09:29 PM.

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    I won't be surprised if we see some really crazy $#@! from time to time next year. Like.... four guards and a forward for five minute stretches, as a fer instance. Shaka Smart has proven to me in one short season that he is just about as flexible as they come. He isn't going to have all the pieces in place next year (any more than he did this year), but one thing is for certain: that's not going to stop him from figuring out how to put Texas in position to win some games no one thinks they should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasStrong12 View Post
    Shaka seems to be saving a roster spot for a transfer or JUCO. I bet we see at least 1 JUCO or transfer.

    Jones will also start from day one IMO.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walden Ponderer View Post
    I won't be surprised if we see some really crazy $#@! from time to time next year. Like.... four guards and a forward for five minute stretches, as a fer instance. Shaka Smart has proven to me in one short season that he is just about as flexible as they come. He isn't going to have all the pieces in place next year (any more than he did this year), but one thing is for certain: that's not going to stop him from figuring out how to put Texas in position to win some games no one thinks they should.
    I could too. A "havoc" lineup of Jones, Yancy, Roach, EDJ and a Banks or Allen (?)

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    I'm thinking about this squad again, and man...if Shaka can do a similar job next year to the one he's done this year, that team is going to be seriously fun to watch when things are going well. Having Roach, Davis, and Jones on the floor together will be something. Roach is a freak athlete, yes, but his numbers actually project to him be a real basketball player who happens to be a world class athlete. Davis is the most confident kid I've ever seen and is a true scorer who can really shoot. Jones is supposed to be the real deal, a guy we should expect to be 2-and-done or possibly (though I doubt it) one-and-done. 6'4", can run, pass, shoot, score, and plays with flair. That's not to mention Yancy, who I think we all really like (got to have some junkyard dogs, and he can knock down the 3 as well), and Young, whose lineage and tape suggests that he could be a J'Covan Brown type of scorer.

    The front court looks weak. It simply does, as far as front courts in this conference go. But I think a lot of people are sleeping on Shaq. I think he could average double figures next year while grabbing plenty of rebounds. Not a star by any means, but I've seen a lot of people here say that he sucks or talk down on him, when that's just not the case. I don't know anything about Banks, and Allen is way too small to be a low-post presence right away, but maybe we will still get someone in who can be that for us.

    The guy I'm really going to miss is Lammert. Having a 6'10" guy who plays that hard, crashes the glass, hits threes, and is clutch (something that not enough people seem to appreciate about him) is just awesome for us this year, and we will miss him. I don't think many people take into consideration that he's a senior, and everything that that means: he's physically developed, he's picked up on Shaka's system more quickly than the young guys, and as a man in his 20's, he plays balls-out every single possession, which is very rare in freshmen and young players. He's the guy this year who is making the plays that go unnoticed but help win games, and we don't project to have anyone who will replace either his skillset or his intangibles next year.

    Still, the guards will be deep and talented, and if we land Allen (and hopefully one more) big man, then the foundation will be set for unlimited future success.
    Last edited by Derka Derka; 02-24-2016 at 11:56 AM.

  • #8
    I think we'll be better next year.

  • #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverwenttoUT View Post
    I think we'll be better next year.
    That would be surprising and awesome. The roster will not be as talented by any means, but much of that has to do with age more than it does actual talent, or projected talent. At the same time, it's a roster that seems better suited to run Havoc, which I think Shaka wants to do here when he has the personnel. It should be a fun season with ups and down, but depending on who we keep, 2017-2018 should be a blast.

  • #10
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    With Cleare and Newsome?!? being the only guys over 6'6" with any experience(I use that term loosely for Newsome), I really see next year as a rebuilding year.


    The obvious key to a good team is a replacement for the current bigs we're losing; SO it's Allen and if not him, does Texas get Rakocevic out of Chicago?

  • #11
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    I think we will be better next year as well. We aren't even running havoc like Shaka wants too, he said in his pre season coaches presser he was having to run what fits this teams strengths so with a more guard oriented team and athletic bigs like he wants I think we will be better..

    I would say the majority of our games this year have been won not just with the upperclass talent but with the 3 freshmen coming off the bench and 1 or all of them scoring big points and hitting big shots and having a leadership attitude.. Call me crazy but I think we will be better overall.. College is a guard dominated sport, I think bigs are important but great guard play trumps big men in college and he is getting some absolute scoring machines coming in with EDJ and Roach and Mack shooting we will be fun to watch and tough to beat..

  • #12
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    You guys are putting way to much stock in college big men.. Yes we need them but most great tourney runs are done by guards, great shooting teams and athletic bigs that can hit jumpers.. We have won games this year and was out rebounded by double digits. This isn't the nba.. Zones in college can take away a big strengths faster than anything..

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    Sure but besides Yancy, every guard will be a freshman or sophomore. I can't think of a single team with almost no size, strength or depth in the post, plus all lower-classmen guards that was better than our current team. Hell, you can ignore the part about the post players (which is by far the bigger issue) and it still holds true. Teams that rely on a bunch of teenagers to win them games usually don't have a resume that stacks up with that of this current Texas team.

  • #14
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    Maybe.. We will see, I just think when a coach has his players that fit his style he gets more out of them. I think they will be similar to this year of start slow and show flashes and then kick it in gear and finish strong..

    We don't need dominat big men to win in college.. You need serviceable, athletic bigs for what Shaka wants to do. Youth is the biggest issue not bigs.. Guards carry most of the best teams in college basketball and you may have a exception here or there. Our 3 current freshmen have all had huge games a few times each this year and I expect a big growth from them and then scoring from our next crop. I just think we will be better. Maybe I wil be wrong and we can bump this if I am.

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    As of now we have one serviceable big, and no athletic bigs. We definitely have some work to do in that department before next season if we want to be a top 25 team.

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    Banks and Allen will be very athletic bigs and will fit what Shaka wants to do or he wouldn't have pursued them..

    And I bet he will sign a juco big or a transfer big before its all said and done..

    But again almost all the top teams in college are led by good guard play and we will have a lot of scoring shooter guards..

  • #17
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    We'd have been in a world of hurt this year without Lammert. Hoping we're not in a world of hurt next year without him. But what he brings to the team will be missed.

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    You're obviously just trolling utgrad97.

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    I don't think you need you need an extremely tall big to win or be competitive in the Big12. Like above, you need an athletic guy who works hard, can hit 10 foot jumpers and drive past slower big guys. That's how Baylor and Iowa State are winning this year.

    I agree with Derka that Lammert will be the biggest loss next year

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad ash View Post
    I don't think you need you need an extremely tall big to win or be competitive in the Big12. Like above, you need an athletic guy who works hard, can hit 10 foot jumpers and drive past slower big guys. That's how Baylor and Iowa State are winning this year.

    I agree with Derka that Lammert will be the biggest loss next year
    KU is about to win another title starting 6'8 Perry Ellis and his 57-year old receding hairline and 6'10 Landon Lucas in the frontcourt.

    Cleare and Banks have enough size.

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    Shaka havoc defense is actually at its best with athletic 6'8 to 6'9 bigs that will rebound and score when needed too..

    Apparently I'm utgrad and trolling because I say college basketball is more about guard play than post men even though that's true.. We have been winning without Ridley and playing with a foul ridden prince and lammert who isn't a tough strong post but a pick and pop post and cleare who we say is t very good.. So yea youth might be the biggest issue next year more than big men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketHorn1978 View Post
    Apparently I'm utgrad and trolling because I say college basketball is more about guard play than post men even though that's true..
    My post was pretty clearly directed toward Gut Wagon, seeing as how he said something nice about Lammert. Try to keep up.

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    I'm surprised the word rebuilding has been brought up. I actually think we will have a similar type of season this year with a lot of other teams losing the majority of their talent-looking at you OU. I was worried about not having very many bigs but allen has to see immediate playing time along with a juco or a transfer. I think we will actually see more of havoc basics and see how that works. This year is great for the freshman to learn the fundamentals of it in the few times that we have tried to run it. It at least gives them a chance to really run it next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMountainHighHorn View Post
    I'm surprised the word rebuilding has been brought up. I actually think we will have a similar type of season this year with a lot of other teams losing the majority of their talent-looking at you OU. I was worried about not having very many bigs but allen has to see immediate playing time along with a juco or a transfer. I think we will actually see more of havoc basics and see how that works. This year is great for the freshman to learn the fundamentals of it in the few times that we have tried to run it. It at least gives them a chance to really run it next year.
    I actually agree. We can run a lot of 4 guard looks next year and run havoc. Allen/Banks are big guys Shaka wants in his havoc system. I would be extremely surprised if we took that big of a step down. The beginning might be a little rough depending on who we have to play (no China trips, thank God), but I wouldn't expect the sky to be falling early.

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    A lot of people are talking about our 16-17 freshmen as if they will step in and play at their max potential from day 1. We have three really good freshmen this year, and all three are role players. Between the three of them I don't think they have more than 5-7 games where one of them had a great game and it led to a win. Between the 3 of them we're looking at 15, 20, maybe more games where their impact was largely inconsequential.

    Impact freshmen are rare, and hard to come by. And the three guys we have are perimeter players, where it's easier to step right in and contribute. People expecting Banks, Allen, or Young to step in and be a difference maker might want to think twice about that prediction, as it's simply not likely. Plus, we are losing ALL of our best players. I'd rank our players as follows: Ridley, Taylor, Lammert, Felix, EDJ, Ibeh. If you favor Roach over Ibeh I would totally disagree, but regardless, we're losing 5 of our best 6 or 7 players. Our best two returning players will be sophomore combo guards. I'm sorry, but when that's the case, and your incoming guys are good, but not Kentucky good, to project that team to be better than the current one seems disrespectful to this team, and frankly, a bit delusional.

    Remember, we had a team that brought in KD and DJ, two of the best freshmen in Texas history, and that team was inferior to this one. I'm not just talking about their disappointing tourney effort either. That 07 team barely spent time in the top 25 before a win streak at the end of the year vs ok/decent teams, coupled with the KD hype, had us finishing the year ranked undeservedly high. This team we have now would punish that team inside and smother their guards. This team we have right now is undoubtedly better than the 07 team, but we should expect next year's team to be better than this one?

    I'll say this: I believe in Shaka, and I would never put it past him to get next year's team to be just as good as this one. Still, to predict at this point that we will be better next year when ALL of our best/most important players will be skinny 18 year olds and sophomores, it just doesn't make any sense. Now the team after that, when EDJ, Mack, and Roach are upperclassmen and the new class all have a year under their belt; THAT team should be very, very good.

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    I also didn't mention that Damion James was a part of that same class, and although he ended up being a 4-year guy who got really good,he in fact was a pretty big time HS recruit who many thought at one time would be a one-and-done. So he's a good example of a guy who really needed time to adapt and grow, despite being highly thought of as a HS prospect.

    edit: Damion James was a 5-star recruit who was the no.1 player in the state. That 06 class and 07 team is a really good one to look at for some here who might need to temper expectations. DJ and KD had as good of freshman seasons as any two guys could have had, and the class included another 5-star in Damion James who needed time to max out. Those guys were great as a class and even as players, but teams full of freshmen and sophomores with little depth and size just don't generally have great seasons.
    Last edited by Derka Derka; 02-25-2016 at 01:43 PM.

  • #28
    asshat RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978 has a gigantic e-peen. RocketHorn1978's Avatar
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    Shaka had some way less talented teams at VCU with 2 and 3 star kids that fit his system which is more important. Comparing next years youth to a Rick Barnes led disaster is also dumb to do, There are more than one way to skin a cat and win in college basketball, in the end you could be right and we do struggle but it won't have to do with not having dominant big men, we have been winning without ridley and 80% of the time a foul ridden Ibeh, so basically a stretch 4 in Lammert(who isn't a dominant down low big) and Cleare who most say sucks.. Youth may be a issue next year but you can't say "next years team will struggle because other teams from Texas that were loaded and had better talent struggled".. It's impossible to compare year to previous years when Teams like vcu have had more successful years than Texas the last few years with 2-3 star guys, and maybe the occasional 4 star..

    I think we will be AS good or maybe slightly better.. That doesn't mean I think we will go 28-3 which is what I think you think we mean..21-9 or 20-10 is about what I think next years team can be.. I just think when a coach has a system and he gets his guys in and they buy in like Shaka can do they will be better..

  • #29
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    I agree with you in principle, but not next year when we'll be so young, thin, and guard-oriented. Of course if we add another player or three my tune could change, but as it stands today 2016-17 looks more like the year before the year. Same as the football team this year.

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    Rick O'Donnell loves the 16-17 Longhorns

    "Next season's recruiting class might be even better, led by 6'4 combo guard Andrew Jones (Smart's first McDonald's All-American) and top 100 big man James Banks. The final piece could be center Jarrett Allen, a five-star recruit from Houston who could tie together Smart's grand plan on both ends."


    http://www.sbnation.com/college-bask...ent-recruiting

  • #31
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    I hope Allen isn't the final piece. I'd still think we need a JuCo or transfer as well, ideally.

  • #32
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    I realize this isn't going to happen but I'm still holding out hope that Cam gets a redshirt. I'm not seeing him on any NBA draft boards. Not 1st OR 2nd round.

    If he comes back he will be the focal point of the offense and can build on the double double he was averaging this year. I don't see it as impossible for him to work himself into the lottery with a great year.

    If he goes this year it will be NBADL or Europe.

    Either way we will be fine. I like 4 guard lineups with Mack a the 4. With another year of strength training the guards will look a lot better.

  • #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derka Derka View Post
    A lot of people are talking about our 16-17 freshmen as if they will step in and play at their max potential from day 1. We have three really good freshmen this year, and all three are role players. Between the three of them I don't think they have more than 5-7 games where one of them had a great game and it led to a win. Between the 3 of them we're looking at 15, 20, maybe more games where their impact was largely inconsequential.

    Impact freshmen are rare, and hard to come by. And the three guys we have are perimeter players, where it's easier to step right in and contribute. People expecting Banks, Allen, or Young to step in and be a difference maker might want to think twice about that prediction, as it's simply not likely. Plus, we are losing ALL of our best players. I'd rank our players as follows: Ridley, Taylor, Lammert, Felix, EDJ, Ibeh. If you favor Roach over Ibeh I would totally disagree, but regardless, we're losing 5 of our best 6 or 7 players. Our best two returning players will be sophomore combo guards. I'm sorry, but when that's the case, and your incoming guys are good, but not Kentucky good, to project that team to be better than the current one seems disrespectful to this team, and frankly, a bit delusional.

    Remember, we had a team that brought in KD and DJ, two of the best freshmen in Texas history, and that team was inferior to this one. I'm not just talking about their disappointing tourney effort either. That 07 team barely spent time in the top 25 before a win streak at the end of the year vs ok/decent teams, coupled with the KD hype, had us finishing the year ranked undeservedly high. This team we have now would punish that team inside and smother their guards. This team we have right now is undoubtedly better than the 07 team, but we should expect next year's team to be better than this one?

    I'll say this: I believe in Shaka, and I would never put it past him to get next year's team to be just as good as this one. Still, to predict at this point that we will be better next year when ALL of our best/most important players will be skinny 18 year olds and sophomores, it just doesn't make any sense. Now the team after that, when EDJ, Mack, and Roach are upperclassmen and the new class all have a year under their belt; THAT team should be very, very good.
    i agree with you, i'm just not sure that EDJ isn't a pro after his sophomore season. he's easily the best prospect on the current team.

  • #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyEngineer View Post
    I realize this isn't going to happen but I'm still holding out hope that Cam gets a redshirt. I'm not seeing him on any NBA draft boards. Not 1st OR 2nd round.

    If he comes back he will be the focal point of the offense and can build on the double double he was averaging this year. I don't see it as impossible for him to work himself into the lottery with a great year.

    If he goes this year it will be NBADL or Europe.

    Either way we will be fine. I like 4 guard lineups with Mack a the 4. With another year of strength training the guards will look a lot better.
    Shaka said on tv this week that he isn't coming back.

  • #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigOrange View Post
    i agree with you, i'm just not sure that EDJ isn't a pro after his sophomore season. he's easily the best prospect on the current team.
    If Roach can become a true PG he'll be a lottery pick IMO, but yeah, Davis has NBA written all over him.

  • #36
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    Ridley won't be eligible for a redshirt.

  • #37
    Derka I like what you say about next years team creating havoc ala, the Smart way. Also I think it will be rough and slow starting out of the gate, but they will start coming around towards mid season and then close with a flourish.

    What will be interesting to see is how the rest of the big 12-4+2 looks. Tubby doesn't have much talent in Lubbock but he gets the most out of it & they will be even better. All and all that should be a tighter conference next year than this years.

    I still want Texas to get out of the big 12, or for the conference to just die; however basketball is really fun and interesting in this conference.

  • #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derka Derka View Post
    If Roach can become a true PG he'll be a lottery pick IMO, but yeah, Davis has NBA written all over him.
    agree with your assessment of roach, but it will take him another 2 years to become a true nba pg prospect. still, the defense he played to end the ou game + his athleticism is enough to get him drafted. hope he sticks around 2 more years and develops a complete game though. he could be a star if he ever truly figures out basketball.

  • #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigOrange View Post
    agree with your assessment of roach, but it will take him another 2 years to become a true nba pg prospect. still, the defense he played to end the ou game + his athleticism is enough to get him drafted. hope he sticks around 2 more years and develops a complete game though. he could be a star if he ever truly figures out basketball.
    It was just unbelievable watching him smother Buddy like that. And as a freshman. We got some young studs on this team for sure.

  • #40
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    it's absolutely amazing how bright the future seems to be. cant wait to watch it all play out.

  • #41
    Is Taylor going pro a real possibility? Which team is going to use a lottery pick on a guard without an outside shot?


  • #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubbockhorn88 View Post
    Is Taylor going pro a real possibility? Which team is going to use a lottery pick on a guard without an outside shot?

    He was *this* close to going last year. We hire Gregg Marshall and he probably would have gone. It's more than a possibility, it's a virtual certainty.

  • #43
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    he'll go pro, but there is not going to be a lottery pick spent on him. i'm pretty sure he's not going in the first round....but he's definitely declaring.

  • #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigOrange View Post
    he'll go pro, but there is not going to be a lottery pick spent on him. i'm pretty sure he's not going in the first round....but he's definitely declaring.
    It's too bad. Draft Express has him as the 72nd ranked prospect, well below Ibeh.

  • #45
    Taylor isn't coming back, but he should come back. One year under Smart transformed him as a player, two years would change his reputation.

  • #46
    Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 3h3 hours ago
    College of Charleston's Canyon Barry (son of Rick) will transfer and play immediately. Lots of high-majors will be all over him.

    Texas needs to go after this guy.

  • #47
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasStrong12 View Post
    Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 3h3 hours ago
    College of Charleston's Canyon Barry (son of Rick) will transfer and play immediately. Lots of high-majors will be all over him.

    Texas needs to go after this guy.
    Why? It appears he can't shoot, and has a higher TOV% than AST%. Two traits in a guard that aren't ideal.

  • #48
    Quote Originally Posted by utgrad97 View Post
    Why? It appears he can't shoot, and has a higher TOV% than AST%. Two traits in a guard that aren't ideal.
    He's forced to handle the ball at College of Charleston and faces double teams because others know he's the only one that can score.

    If you put Barry at the wing with a penetrating guard (like Jones or Taylor), he will be damn good. He's a guy at the wing that can sit and shoot 3s. Plus he adds length on the perimeter

    Someone like Iowa State is going to grab this guy and he's going to be draining 3s in our face in conference.
    Last edited by TexasStrong12; 03-15-2016 at 12:12 AM.

  • #49
    Quote Originally Posted by neverwenttoUT View Post
    I think we'll be better next year.
    Being a defending champ is always hard....but I agree.

  • #50
    If Vanderbilt fires Stallings I would watch out for the name Clevon Brown.

    Texas might take a look there. Vanderbilt would have to let him out of his LOI though.

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