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Thread: Battle of Mosul - 2016

  1. #251
    haven't read pages 1-4 but is there a venn diagram of the good and bad guys? and that venn diagram probably needs to be updated daily.

    the region has been $#@!ed for thousands of years. which leads me to the below video. this will not end well for anyone since the victors will then start to fight each other.


  • #252
    Quote Originally Posted by MillerEP View Post
    There is a sandstorm, wind, and rain...
    Having spent five years in Lubbock, this is no joke - especially the mud balls falling from the sky.

  • #253
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    Some highlights from today:

    In the East the Iraqi Army has fully retaken Gogjali, after some severe fighting.

    In the Southwest, the Popular Mobilization Units captured the villages of Ain al-Jayish, al-Khabirat, al-Alzim, and Farsiyah on their way to Tal Afar. They also captured the last road linking Mosul to Raqqa, making ISIS escape or reinforcement a little harder.

    In the SouthEast the Federal Police have captured Bazzunah, Munkar, Qahirah, Munirah, Nuzazah, Kharar, Ayn Shahloom, Kusbah, Bughlaween, Khafsan, and Bazunahand are about 15km from the Mosul Airport. They also have begun assaulting the village of Hammam al-Alil South of Mosul.

  • #254
    Just saw this pic of tank getting its' turret blown off. Rough day of work for those guys.



    It's a crazy world when you can watch a war from both sides in real time.
    Last edited by Chad Fuck; 11-02-2016 at 04:40 PM.

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    I have learned more about Turkey vs Kurds vs ISIS vs Iraq by reading this thread than all the news I've watched ever watched combined.

    Flow charts ftw

  • #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad $#@! View Post
    Just saw this pic of tank getting its' turret blown off. Rough day of work for those guys.



    It's a crazy world when you can watch a war from both sides in real time.
    Yeah they've been using ATGMs in Syria for a while now, there were reports about a week ago that they were going to bring them over, this is reportedly the 3rd tank they blew up so far, they claimed 2 a couple days ago. Not sure where they got them, whether they were ones given to Syria defense forces which ended up in ISIS' hands, or if they took them from fleeing Iraqi/Syrian armies when they fled from ISIS a couple years ago.

  • #257
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    I assume all the weapons we're giving those people have some kind of fail safe to keep them from being used against us in the future? Because they will.

  • #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parliament View Post
    I assume all the weapons we're giving those people have some kind of fail safe to keep them from being used against us in the future? Because they will.
    Hahahahhahah.

  • #259
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    Yesterday there was a report of some Syrian/Russian armor being moved toward Al Bab, as that appears to be Syria's next target after Aleppo. That means there will be Russian backed Syrian Army supported by Iranian forces, US back SDF/YPG Kurdish forces and Turkey supported FSA forces including their Turkish tanks, artillery and aircraft all converging on Al Bab at the same time.

    Turkey has said they want to control a 5000 square kilometer area. That would run from the Euphrates to the Kurdish Afrin Canton, as they want to keep the two Kurdish Cantons separate. It is not clear how Syria feels about that as they have not responded so far to the Turkish incursion. Al Bab is in that 5000 km zone.

    A smaller part of that I find disturbing is with regard to Manbij, Turkey has announced they are putting together a military council to run the city once they take it from the Kurds. But the Kurds have allowed the original Manbij city council run things while they provide security. So Turkey is intent in replacing the existing city government. It also turns out that most of the Al Bab city council is exiled in Manbij, and hope to return ounce Al Bab is captured from ISIS. The Kurds have no doubt been in discussions with them in advance.

    If that weren't bad enough the Turkish military buildup in Silopi just north of the Iraq border has me worried. Erdogan has made it clear that he thinks that Mosul, Tel Afar and Shingal should all be part of the Turkish empire. He has also said he will not allow a free Iraqi Kurdistan. Iraqi Kurdistan is planning to seek recognition as a free and independent country once ISIS is defeated, and is already trying to get support from other countries. I am starting to believe there is a fairly high probability of Turkey attacking Iraq/Kurdistan in 2017.

    Erdogan is consolidating power, closing newspapers and news outlet and firing tens of thousands of people he does not trust. He is well on his way to being a dictator, although one could say he already is. Stratfor had a recent article that the Turkish economy is struggling. A lot of their recent growth was due to foreign loans and investment, which has dried up, and now payments are past due. Who knows what Erdogan will do to shore up his regime.

  • #260
    Erdogan don't give a $#@!.

  • #261
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    Some Highlights of today:

    ISIS has been hitting back along most of it's fronts.

    In the West, the PMU are claiming the capture of the villages of Ein al-Jahsh al Gharbi, Ghazila, and Muhallabiyah, al-Masayid, Ein al-Jahsh al-Gharbi, Tal Zilata, and Tal Shehab and are now about 15km from Tal Afar. There are reports of heavy fighting around the villages of Tal Zilata and al-Masayid.

    In the South the Iraqi Federal Police claim to have captured some positions around the town of Hamam Aleel and claim to have shot down an ISIS "drone" in Shirqat south Qayyarah:


    In the North, the Kurds announced that 40,000 refugees have arrived in "Kurdistan," while ISIS is hitting back around Bashiqa.

    In the East, bombings have started up in the Al-Quds neighborhood of Mosul, in preperation of the Iraqis going in, while the Iraqis have "stormed" the Mosul neighborhoods of Intisar and Karama. In Gogjali they're clearing the houses and booby traps, and discovered that ISIS was resettling Russians and their ISIS families in the village.

  • #262
    That "drone" looks like the Styrofoam airplane I had for a couple minutes when I was a kid.

  • #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    That "drone" looks like the Styrofoam airplane I had for a couple minutes when I was a kid.
    Yeah, I'm guessing the propulsion system involved a running start and hoping the wind was blowing in the right direction.

  • #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parliament View Post
    I assume all the weapons we're giving those people have some kind of fail safe to keep them from being used against us in the future? Because they will.
    haha, go on!

  • #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macanudo View Post
    Yeah, I'm guessing the propulsion system involved a running start and hoping the wind was blowing in the right direction.
    And then having it do an immediate backwards loop and nosedive into the ground, causing the wings to fall out.

  • #266
    So checking on live map, there are reports Turkish tanks have entered Iraq. That kinda ramps things a bit.

  • #267
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    Just in time for Thanksgiving

  • #268
    I don't think they celebrate Thanksgiving.

  • #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheBuck View Post
    I don't think they celebrate Thanksgiving.
    C'mon man. Even roethlisburger got the joke.

  • #270
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    Battle of Mosul - 2016

    Man what a change in turkey from 20 years ago when Dad was stationed in incirlik...I'd ride my bike off base to get food, porn and occasional booze as a teen. Outside of people tying cows to your car on market day or lambs blood everywhere after Ramadan it was no thing. Always wanted to go back and visit but that ain't happening now...feeling like a possible wwiii brewing there

  • #271
    What could possibly go wrong?

  • #272
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  • #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad $#@! View Post
    So checking on live map, there are reports Turkish tanks have entered Iraq. That kinda ramps things a bit.
    They were massing heavy forces on the border yesterday. Presumably to back up their threat on Tal Afar.

    Some highlights from today:
    In the West, the Militias captured the villages of Ghazil al Sufla, Ghazil al Ulya, Atasa, and al-Rikatof, near Tal Afar.

    In the South, ISIS went into al-Shirqat (a previously captured city) and attacked the Iraqi forces there. The oil wells are still burning around Qayyarah, turning everythign black, to include these aggy girlfriends:


    In and around Mosul, fierce fighting took place around Al-Kindi Plant, Al-Kafa'at, Al-Thaniya, Al-Qahira, Al-Tahrir, and Sada Ba'wiza villages. The Iraqis are claiming they have captured the Mosul neighborhoods of Al-Tahrir, al-Malayin, al-Samah, al-Khazra, Kirkukli, al-Quds, al-Karama, and al-Zuhour. There are also reports of a popular uprising of Mosul citizens turning on ISIS fighters there, with other civilians still fleeing.
    Last edited by MillerEP; 11-04-2016 at 12:53 PM.

  • #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Homercles View Post
    Man what a change in turkey from 20 years ago when Dad was stationed in incirlik...I'd ride my bike off base to get food, porn and occasional booze as a teen. Outside of people tying cows to your car on market day or lambs blood everywhere after Ramadan it was no thing. Always wanted to go back and visit but that ain't happening now...feeling like a possible wwiii brewing there
    Not to threadjack, but $#@! is getting weird:

    Turkey arrests pro-Kurdish opposition leaders
    Turkish authorities arrested the co-leaders of the pro-Kurdish opposition Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP) on Friday on terrorism-related charges as the post-coup crackdown in the country continues.

    Ten other HDP lawmakers were also detained although some were later released, while access to social media and some websites were blocked following the detentions, according to an internet monitoring group.
    Meanwhile:
    Nine dead in blast in southeastern Turkey
    Nine people have been killed and more than 100 wounded in a huge explosion in central Diyarbakir, a city in Turkey's mainly Kurdish southeast.

    Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said two police officers and seven civilians were killed in Friday blast.

    The Diyarbakir governor's office said a car bomb went off at about 8am local time (5:00 GMT), adding the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) had claimed responsibility.

    The explosion happened hours after police arrested 12 MPs from the pro-Kurdish People's Democratic Party.
    And, keep in mind:
    Iraq-Turkey tension rises amid battle for Mosul
    Iraq's prime minister has warned Turkey against provoking a confrontation while saying he does not want war.

    Haider al-Abadi made the comments after Turkey deployed tanks and artillery near the Iraqi border and insisted that any Turkish involvement would be a violation of national sovereignty.

    Turkey wants a a role in the battle to retake Mosul from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) group, by virtue of being a member of the anti-ISIL coalition.
    ...
    On Tuesday, Turkish military sources said that tanks and artillery were being sent to southeastern districts near the Iraqi border.

    The 30-vehicle convoy left Ankara for Silopi, the sources told AFP news agency, adding that it was now close to Adana province in southern Turkey.

    Fikri Isik, Turkey's defence minister, said the deployment was part of Turkey's preparation for "important developments in the region", referring to Kurdish fighters inside the country and events in Iraq.
    ...
    The Mosul offensive involves tens of thousands of Iraqi government soldiers, federal police, Kurdish fighters, Sunni tribesmen and Shia militias.
    Just within the Mosul theater, the actors are: Sunnis, Shiites, Iranians, Iraqis, Turks, ISIS, & US. Not to mention all the various combatants next door in Syria.

    Does anyone know whether Franz Ferdinand has any plans to visit the region?

  • #275
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  • #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homercles View Post
    Man what a change in turkey from 20 years ago when Dad was stationed in incirlik...I'd ride my bike off base to get food, porn and occasional booze as a teen. Outside of people tying cows to your car on market day or lambs blood everywhere after Ramadan it was no thing. Always wanted to go back and visit but that ain't happening now...feeling like a possible wwiii brewing there
    Went in to port for a few days in Marmaris about 6 years ago and it was nice then. Erdogan sucks $#@!.

  • #277
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    The assault on Raqqa has started per SDF leadership. They have assembled an group of 30,000 fighters that they say is 80% from Raqqa and has a mixture of Arab, Kurdish and Turkmen fighters. They are supported by coalition aircraft.

    They say the US has agreed that Turkey will not participate, so this is bound to get interesting. The YPG alone is thought to have 50,000 fighters, so they are probably only a small percentage of this force.

    There was one report that Iraqi forces had to withdraw from part of Mosul after an ISIS counter attack. I did not see anything official yet about the counter attack.

  • #278
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    To clarify the last point I found a Reuters article that said an advancing unit had ISIS cut them off from behind. They ended up abandoning their vehicles and hiding in houses before eventually working their way back to safety.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKBN13107V

    Here is the Sun focusing on soldiers wearing skull masks.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/212105...-death-squads/
    Last edited by RayDog; 11-06-2016 at 10:24 AM.

  • #279
    This 60 minutes piece is amazing

  • #280
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    Lara Logan has a death wish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lat22 View Post
    Lara Logan has a death wish.
    I have a Lara Logan wish.

  • #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lat22 View Post
    Lara Logan has a death wish.
    Props to her for going back into the belly of the beast.

    She spoke at my church last year. It was about her reporting experiences, nothing churchy. She even talked in frank detail about the sexual assault in Egypt. She was really engaging and entertaining, and yes, she's that hot in person.

  • #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by South Austin View Post
    Props to her for going back into the belly of the beast.

    She spoke at my church last year. It was about her reporting experiences, nothing churchy. She even talked in frank detail about the sexual assault in Egypt. She was really engaging and entertaining, and yes, she's that hot in person.
    dem titties.

  • #284
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    Highlights from this weekend:
    North(east):
    The Peshmerga have entered the city of Bashiqa and are doing house to house searching. There are reports that they have finally liberated Bashiqa and Bahzan. There were more claims of Iraqis shooting down an Isis "drone":


    South:
    The Iraqis are fighting and now claimed the Hammam Al-Alil cement plant along the Tigris, while still trying to advance to the Mosul airport. They also reportedly discovered a mass grave at their college of Agriculture (Iraqis have more in common with aggys then we thought, it goes beyond sheep love) west Hammam Al-Alil.

    West:
    The PMU forces are massing outside of Tal Afar, and are reporting the foreign fighters are fleeing the city.

  • #285
    airhogs rc controller plus corrugated plastic.

  • #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parliament View Post
    I assume all the weapons we're giving those people have some kind of fail safe to keep them from being used against us in the future? Because they will.
    I hate to pile on, but LMFAO.

  • #287
    And here we go -

    Turkish army shelled YPG positions in Ain Diwar, North-East of Hasakah

  • #288
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    Highlights from today;
    In the NE, Bashiqa is still being fought over, with reports that the Peshmerga finally liberated it 100% (was only 50% yesterday when they said they controlled it the first time).

    In the West, The PMU is close enough to Tal Afar, that they're now preparing to assault the airfield.

    In Mosul, they have begun shelling the Tahrir neighborhood, preparing it for moving in, while fighting is still going on in and around the city.

    Here is the latest UN report on the Humanitarian effect this battle is having:

  • #289
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    The Iraqis are claiming to have fully captured their first neighborhood of Mosul, the Saddam Neighborhood.

  • #290
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    Well there goes the dam neighborhood

  • #291
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    Highlights from today:
    In the West, fighting has begun around Tal Afar's airport

    Inside Mosul, ISIS hung 20 civilians from traffic light poles, and continue launching car bombs around Mosul. Meanwhile the Iraqis continue the slow progress in the outside neighborhoods.

    Just South of Mosul, locals in Hamam al-Alil torched around 20 houses thought to be occupied by ISIL members’ families.

  • #292
    asshat MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP's Avatar
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    Highlights of today:
    The Iraqi Army's 16th Division in claiming control of al-Najmawi field near the Ba'waziyah suburb north of Mosul.

    Fighting is still going on inside the eastern neighborhoods of Mosul.

    The Iraqis are claiming they now control Abbas Rajab village on the south-east of Mosul. While slowly creeping towards the sites of ancient Nimrud.

  • #293
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37930402

    Mosul battle: 'Iraqi forces' tortured and killed villagers

    Men dressed in Iraqi federal police uniforms are reported to have tortured and killed residents of villages south of Mosul, Amnesty International says.

    Evidence gathered by the group suggests up to six people from the Shura and Qayyarah sub-districts were shot dead after being detained on suspicion of having ties to so-called Islamic State.

    The federal police forces command has denied the accusations.

    Pro-government forces launched an offensive to retake Mosul last month.

    About 50,000 Iraqi security forces personnel, soldiers, police, Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, Sunni Arab tribesmen and Shia militiamen are involved in the three-week operation.

    Men dressed in Iraqi federal police uniforms are reported to have tortured and killed residents of villages south of Mosul, Amnesty International says.

    Evidence gathered by the group suggests up to six people from the Shura and Qayyarah sub-districts were shot dead after being detained on suspicion of having ties to so-called Islamic State.

    The federal police forces command has denied the accusations.

    Pro-government forces launched an offensive to retake Mosul last month.

    About 50,000 Iraqi security forces personnel, soldiers, police, Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, Sunni Arab tribesmen and Shia militiamen are involved in the three-week operation.

    Amnesty researchers visited the locations where the extrajudicial executions are alleged to have taken place as IS militants retreated, taking with them hundreds of women, children and old men apparently for use as human shields.

    According to information they obtained, about 10 men and a 16-year-old boy who escaped being forcibly transferred by IS were tortured after handing themselves over to a small group of men wearing police uniforms in the Nus Tal area on 21 October.

    The men were taken on foot to an open desert area, where they were allegedly beaten with cables and rifle butts, punched and kicked, and had their beards pulled. One man had his beard set alight. They were also made to lie on their stomachs and shots were fired between their legs.

    Three men were then separated from the group. Amnesty said men in police uniforms then subjected them to particularly brutal beatings before shooting them dead. Their remains were found in the same area five days later.

    The body of a fourth man, who was handcuffed and led away by a group of men in police uniforms after being beaten, was discovered nearby almost a week later, according to Amnesty.

    Also on 21 October, another young man was found dead with two bullet wounds shortly after he left a house near the Mishraq sulphur factory, which IS fighters set alight before retreating. He was blindfolded with his torso exposed.

    Amnesty said the sixth man was apparently shot dead as he ran towards forces that included men in police uniform while pulling up his clothes to show that he had no explosives.

    "When the Mosul military operation began, Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi made clear that violations by Iraqi armed forces and its allies would not be tolerated. Now is the time for him to prove just that," said Lynn Maalouf, deputy director for research at Amnesty's Beirut office.

    "The Iraqi authorities must immediately investigate these alarming reports of extrajudicial executions and torture," she added.

    A statement issued by the Command of the Federal Police Forces denied its officers had killed the six villagers, stressing its full commitment to adhere to Mr Abadi's order to protect civilians and their property.

    Officers had provided aid and medical support to those affected by the fighting, and had rescued 10,000 families being used by IS as human shields, it added.

    Meanwhile, residents of Mosul told the Reuters news agency that IS militants had killed at least 20 people in the past two days for passing information to the enemy.

    Five crucified bodies were reportedly put on display at a road junction on Tuesday, while other bodies were seen hanging from electricity poles and traffic lights.

  • #294
    asshat MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP's Avatar
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    Some highlights from this weekend:
    The Iraqis claim to have captured the ancient city of Nimrud finally after some fierce fighting, and and captured some of the surrounding villages like al-Niyifah. No word yet on how much damage was done to the ancient ruins and tombs there, but we know from the videos ISIS was destroying a large portion of them.

    Inside Mosul, the Iraqis claim to have cleared the neighborhoods of Qadisiya and Zahra, making it a total of 10 neighborhoods "cleared". The Iraqis have slowed down considerably, and are basically inching forward at this point to reduce casualties. They also are reporting ISIS has been counterattacking heavily in some areas.

    In Karamalis Iraq in the North, Christian Iraqis held their first Mass in the old St. Addai church. All the glass was busted out, the pews burned, and the statue of Mary was decapitated, but they said the sound of the Church bells going off gave people "goosebumps." (In a good way)

    In the West, the "third phase" of the Tel Afar campaign kicked off, with the Iraqis claiming a couple villages nearby. The most notable being the Yazidi militias fighting back claiming the village of Taru near Shingal.
    Last edited by MillerEP; 11-14-2016 at 08:50 AM.

  • #295
    asshat MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP Shaggy Gold Club MillerEP's Avatar
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    Highlights from today:
    The Iraqi Army and Police are now about 3km away from the Mosul Airport. The Iraqis are now saying that 955 militants have been killed South of Mosul.

    There have been reports of citizens in some of these free cities rising up and doing revenge killings on ISIS supporters and members missed by the Army and Police.

    Inside Mosul the situation is about the same as it was yesterday.

  • #296
    asshat 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? 210816horn's Avatar
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    Been keeping my eye on this thread, I'm very intrigued how this all plays out. As mentioned before this thread provides more insight than any news outlet.

  • #297
    Agreed. Pos rep for the nuggets of info spread throughout this thread. Any book recommendations for someone to get a better handle on ME affairs? Recently I finished up Lawrence in Arabia which covered in good detail not just about TEL but various agents and their web of intigue throughout WWI. I had seen the movie but never grasped all of the political implications. I'm looking to learn more about the region, either back in antiquity up to present day so I can evolve my basic understanding of this whole $#@!storm.

  • #298
    asshat TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster Shaggy Gold Club TaxMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimyh View Post
    Agreed. Pos rep for the nuggets of info spread throughout this thread. Any book recommendations for someone to get a better handle on ME affairs? Recently I finished up Lawrence in Arabia which covered in good detail not just about TEL but various agents and their web of intigue throughout WWI. I had seen the movie but never grasped all of the political implications. I'm looking to learn more about the region, either back in antiquity up to present day so I can evolve my basic understanding of this whole $#@!storm.
    I'd start with From Beirut to Jerusalem by Thomas Friedman. Fantastic overview of the Middle East. It obviously centers on the history between Lebanon and Israel, and Friedman's experience living in the two countries covering it for the new york times, but it really helps readers better understand the Syrians (Assad family), Turks, Jordanians, Saudis, and others.
    Last edited by TaxMaster; 11-16-2016 at 12:05 AM.

  • #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by 210816horn View Post
    been keeping my eye on this thread, i'm very intrigued how this all plays out. As mentioned before this thread provides more insight than any news outlet.
    qft….

  • #300
    asshat Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt Definitely Shaggy upper class Hollywood Colt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 210816horn View Post
    Been keeping my eye on this thread, I'm very intrigued how this all plays out. As mentioned before this thread provides more insight than any news outlet.
    spoiler:

    they're going to keep killing eachother for hundreds of years, with brief moments of 'peace' when a strongman takes control and beats most of them into submission.

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