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  1. #1
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    Online coding schools

    Any of them worth a $#@! or does your resume just go in the junk drawer when one of those is listed? Viking and Launch School are the ones I'm really considering.

  • #2
    benevolent dictator blacklab has disabled reputation blacklab's Avatar
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    I've had a few come across my desk but they were all wanted way more money than I was willing to pay them.

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    Ever worked with anyone that's come out of those programs? Any idea of general competency?

    And out of curiosity, what would you expect to pay someone in their first job coming out of a program like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    Any of them worth a $#@! or does your resume just go in the junk drawer when one of those is listed? Viking and Launch School are the ones I'm really considering.
    My impression of code schools, after going through one, is that everybody learns a lot, but only the students who were already kinda good at coding get good coding jobs afterwards.

    I wasn't one of those guys.

    The experience did help me move ahead in various ways at the kind of job I already did. That's my sample size of one.

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    benevolent dictator blacklab has disabled reputation blacklab's Avatar
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    They had some cool stuff on their resume, but no actual paid projects. Never really got a feel of where they were at.

    Going rate for UT grad in CS is $60k. I would have offered around $40 probably, on par with my interns from UT.

  • #6
    Even if it's to get a low paying, first programming gig, probably worth it. I started out contracting so I had a slightly different career climb out of UTCS. Experience is everything.

  • #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDCanecutter View Post
    My impression of code schools, after going through one, is that everybody learns a lot, but only the students who were already kinda good at coding get good coding jobs afterwards.

    I wasn't one of those guys.

    The experience did help me move ahead in various ways at the kind of job I already did. That's my sample size of one.
    Which one did you do?

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    I've worked with someone who went through one of those "schools" and a few of the "bootcamps". He was a $#@!ing terrible coder. And by $#@!ing terrible I mean his code was complete $#@!ed up bull$#@!. He lasted about 7 months before his swipe card to get into the office no longer worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderlounge View Post
    I've worked with someone who went through one of those "schools" and a few of the "bootcamps". He was a $#@!ing terrible coder. And by $#@!ing terrible I mean his code was complete $#@!ed up bull$#@!. He lasted about 7 months before his swipe card to get into the office no longer worked.
    Was he just not a smart guy? I'm wondering how many people get into these codecamps as an alternative to colleges they couldn't get into. These are for-profit enterprises so they'll take anyone with enough money, I'm sure.

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    I'm not real sure, honestly. He seemed bright enough (not up on my level, but he didn't have the IQ of a salad bar either) but some of the things/ways/methods/whatever he was taught ended up with him producing pure garbage. I had to look back but a couple years ago we had another one from one of those schools, and he didn't work out either. His code wasn't great, but not nearly as bad as the other guy. His biggest problem was he was lazy as $#@!.

    Even though those places will take money from anyone, I can't imagine they would actually pass someone so obviously lost. Sure, he knew the language syntax so to speak, but his construction of said syntax into working pieces of the puzzle were horrible. This guy was so bad that it influenced our hiring policy for new developers by mandating any candidate have a minimum of 3 years professional experience.

    We also changed our code sample policy from submission of examples, to having candidates build certain things from a set of instructions. Nothing that takes 40 hours, but things like write a class that does X Y and Z, another one is a simple tracking counter, and the other is to show 5 different ways to construct a loop to gain a result. (Paraphrased, but you get the idea.) We then have a short 10 question test as well.

    Before all of that, it was resume, code sample (which got checked through google to make sure it at least wasn't an obvious lift), and a single test question (that only 2 people have answered correctly since they started asking it.)


    Anyway, the tl;dr of that is we probably won't look at anyone that went through any of those "schools" unless they've gained a ton of experience since.

  • #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    Which one did you do?
    I did a local 10-week course at a bootcamp. I think they all copy each other, if you want specific info on mine, feel free to pm me.

    I think most graduates would be similar to thunderlounge's experience-- you learn a lot about many different things, but it's a freakin bootcamp; depth and real experience it is not. Real bootcamps, ie, Army Basic training, don't make you a soldier-- they make you trainable by the sergeants at your first real unit. That is what I saw at the code camp. The guys who were already pretty good (about 1/2 of us) got better, and have been holding down the jobs they got a year ago. The rest learned something, either used it to triangulate to better stuff, not necessarily all coding-based, or just disappeared.

    I am glad I did it, even though I do not claim to be a coder. I know enough that I give classes for kids, and can do this and that that I didn't know existed before. I ended up getting my mojo back at my old job. When I was still interviewing for programmer jobs, we had some frank discussions where they said they could tell I learned stuff, but they still wanted real experience. I don't blame them.

    Anyway, there is so much free stuff out there like Codecademy, Free Code Camp, probably dozens more, that you could dive in to any of them and stay busy for a year, some have real projects and stuff that would give you some practice.
    Last edited by RDCanecutter; 11-22-2016 at 07:27 PM.

  • #12
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    Yeah, I've been doing a lot of free stuff. Learn Enough to Be Dangerous and the Rails Tutorial have been really nice. Going to maybe go through the Odin Project too. Probably going to keep it as a hobby though unless something drastic happens. I'm happy to take a pay cut to do something more suited to my introverted nature, but until my wife starts making real money I can't afford to start from scratch just yet. Might sign up for Oregon State's e-campus BSCS program. 60 hours @ $470/hr. Not sure I want to commit that much dough to it right now though. <10k is my limit for investing in it at the moment. That's why I like the monthly subscription model of Viking and Launch School. Put in the hours and I could probably finish the program in 6 months for ~$300/mo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderlounge View Post
    I've worked with someone who went through one of those "schools" and a few of the "bootcamps". He was a $#@!ing terrible coder. And by $#@!ing terrible I mean his code was complete $#@!ed up bull$#@!. He lasted about 7 months before his swipe card to get into the office no longer worked.
    And I've worked with a few bootcamp graduates who were pretty damn good coders. How much you want to continue learning and how much of a logic oriented/technical mind you have will greatly serve you (in my limited experience at least) more than what degree you have.

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderlounge View Post
    We also changed our code sample policy from submission of examples, to having candidates build certain things from a set of instructions. Nothing that takes 40 hours, but things like write a class that does X Y and Z, another one is a simple tracking counter, and the other is to show 5 different ways to construct a loop to gain a result. (Paraphrased, but you get the idea.) We then have a short 10 question test as well.
    This is completely on your company then. I've seen people with several years of coding experience that have CS degrees do extremely poorly on sample coding projects during the hiring process. Again, it's about how much you're willing to learn and your problem solving skills more than it is what and where you learned imo.

    Edit: Finally, why I might be a little sensitive but I did some CS and Bio in undergrad at Georgia Southern. I attempted to double major but ran into too many issues with class schedules conflicting, so I chose a path of Bio and went to grad school at UT for a little bit before getting sick of it after a year. A few years after that and a couple of different jobs, a friend and I started going to Python and other tech meetups in Austin and I started taking free online courses and going through tutorials (learn Python the hard way, reading books, etc.). I was also able to get my foot in the door by taking a job as a "Software Tester" which allowed me to exercise some of my coding skills (not a QA job, but helping migrate a bunch of historical software planning data between an old and new Agile planning tool). This led to a junior level job and subsequently a more mid-level job. I've had a lot of success by just busting my ass and try to learn as much as I can, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than getting another degree or spending $10k or more at a bootcamp.
    Last edited by GSU&UT; 11-23-2016 at 10:04 AM.

  • #14
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    @Bran: Good luck! I don't think you can go wrong spending free time studying. I would be wary of over-paying. Also--shockingly-- these schools lie about their results. Eg: I got mail from my school that 95% of us had found jobs. Pretty interesting, seeing as how there were 15 of us in the class. Maybe they counted the instructors, the secretary, as well as a few of the people who didn't get jobs.

    My pals who ended up in coding all kept learning new things from Day 1 on their jobs. One batch all got hired by a bank to program in Java. Our school taught us Javascript. Bank thought it was the same thing. My pals did some scrambling, but are still there working. :D

    Just from what I saw, if you wear it out teaching yourself as much as you can on your own time, you'll be that much better off if/when you hit a paying school. You'll be more likely to get job recommendations from the instructors too.

  • #15
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    General question about learning coding:
    More important to work in languages that are popular now -- JS, python, ruby -- or to try and get ahead of the curve with more recent additions -- Go, Elm, Scala?

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    benevolent dictator blacklab has disabled reputation blacklab's Avatar
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    JS is by far the best thing to learn right now.

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    Ruby is $#@!.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TKthunder View Post
    Ruby is $#@!.
    what's wrong with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    what's wrong with it?
    It's slow, and the bigger your application/program is the more difficult it is to scale. Many ruby platforms I've been invovled with end up completely reengineering from the ground up after they reach a certain tipping point. And while yes that is a design problem, the issue is that ruby is so single threaded that it's hard to correct without starting over so you end up with a ton of patch work which only exacerbates the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TKthunder View Post
    It's slow, and the bigger your application/program is the more difficult it is to scale. Many ruby platforms I've been invovled with end up completely reengineering from the ground up after they reach a certain tipping point. And while yes that is a design problem, the issue is that ruby is so single threaded that it's hard to correct without starting over so you end up with a ton of patch work which only exacerbates the problem.
    Gotcha. I've read that. Didn't twitter start out as a ruby on rails app that migrated to something else after they got huge?

    On the flip side, it's been the easiest for me to pick up. Ruby code reads almost like plain English at times. So from a beginner standpoint I like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
    JS is by far the best thing to learn right now.
    Agreed. 90% of what I do is Node.js + Express + some sort of SQL Database (sometimes NoSQL but not necessarily MongoDB) + lots and lots of AWS services. I do get to occasionally mess with Java and C# which I enjoy as I like the structure of OOP, but not everyone does.

    Not intending to start a big debate either, but I've grown to love Typescript. JS purists don't necessarily like this as it tries to add OOP to JS and since it's maintained by Microsoft it's more geared towards getting C#/.NET developers to use JS. I like having intellisense while I'm coding so getting your typing definitions set up with a nice compiler, although this does take some work setting up.
    Last edited by GSU&UT; 11-24-2016 at 11:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
    JS is by far the best thing to learn right now.
    Definitely.


    Quote Originally Posted by TKthunder View Post
    Ruby is $#@!.
    Very much so.

  • #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    On the flip side, it's been the easiest for me to pick up. Ruby code reads almost like plain English at times. So from a beginner standpoint I like it.
    Ruby's #1 priority is making it easy to code. Every decision that goes into the design of ruby is "what will be easier for the developer". Scaling is an afterthought.
    If it's something simple that you're puttering around with it's fine. If it's something you hope to have a few thousand people use then pick something else.
    If you want to get a job, choose JS. Most start ups are using node backend with JS front end with either Angular or React frameworks.

  • #24
    asshat DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKthunder View Post
    It's slow, and the bigger your application/program is the more difficult it is to scale. Many ruby platforms I've been invovled with end up completely reengineering from the ground up after they reach a certain tipping point. And while yes that is a design problem, the issue is that ruby is so single threaded that it's hard to correct without starting over so you end up with a ton of patch work which only exacerbates the problem.
    Which is only an issue if you're pushing > 5K QPS. My current gig is taking apart Rails applications that have reached the point of no return and need to be re-built.

    Ruby is a brilliant language that was way WAY ahead of it's time w/ their decision to rely on closures to encapsulate collection mutation logic. It blows my mind that Ruby was released 20 years ago. Java just got there in 1.8, golang doesn't have closures ( and never will, you'll just have to go old school w/ C / C++ functors ), Objective-C never got them ( though obviously Scala and Swift do ).

  • #25
    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    General question about learning coding:
    More important to work in languages that are popular now -- JS, python, ruby -- or to try and get ahead of the curve with more recent additions -- Go, Elm, Scala?
    Kind of nomfb, but aren't you a neurologist? Sad to see all that education for naught, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Good luck regardless.

    Maybe you'll be the Michael Burry of software development.

  • #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    Gotcha. I've read that. Didn't twitter start out as a ruby on rails app that migrated to something else after they got huge?
    Yeah, the "Fail Whale" was a product of the Rails infrastructure. They ended up re-writing a large portion of MRI ( Matz's Ruby, the standard implementation ) to try and speed it up while they migrated off of it. ( side note, the guy that did is a Texas grad, his name escapes me ). Twitter ended up on Scala using Finagle for microservices.

    Github is probably the largest "straight Rails" deployment in world right now - they average 20K QPS w/ about 20% of that being mutations ( POST / PATCH / PUT requests that required more database horsepower to CREATE / UPDATE ). On Monday mornings they'll push over 30K QPS. Granted, it's expensive as hell and they are looking to get off Rails, but it is what it is right now ( I've got a buddy that works there, only reason I know those stats ).

    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    On the flip side, it's been the easiest for me to pick up. Ruby code reads almost like plain English at times. So from a beginner standpoint I like it.
    Your goal as a beginner should be to learn to program. $#@! everything else. I mean that seriously - programming is a way to think about, to process information to A.) solve the problem B.) write code that provides the correct amount of context to the next programmer. Ruby is an ideal language to learn to program in - once you begin to understand how to think like a programmer, picking up additional languages is not hard.
    Last edited by DFWBear; 11-24-2016 at 10:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    Kind of nomfb, but aren't you a neurologist? Sad to see all that education for naught, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Good luck regardless.

    Maybe you'll be the Michael Burry of software development.
    Yeah, I'm a neurologist. Mostly like what I do, but the profession of medicine is in a huge amount of flux. I expect in 10 to 20 yrs it will either be overtaken by AI or insufferable and unprofitable. People have come to hate doctors. It's crazy. I'm just trying to stay ahead of the curve so when either I burn out or the profession does I'm not stuck with my $#@! in my hand and no marketable skills.

  • #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
    Ruby's #1 priority is making it easy to code. Every decision that goes into the design of ruby is "what will be easier for the developer". Scaling is an afterthought.
    If it's something simple that you're puttering around with it's fine. If it's something you hope to have a few thousand people use then pick something else.
    If you want to get a job, choose JS. Most start ups are using node backend with JS front end with either Angular or React frameworks.
    Thanks for the advice. Going to do a few more Rails/Action Cable projects and then probably start learning JS.
    Last edited by branthebuilder; 11-25-2016 at 01:20 AM. Reason: I know nerdz should be able to multiquote but I didn't see BL's response before the other reply.

  • #29
    mildly interesting programming trends from who is hiring: http://wih.mdnbar.com

    oddly enough, 6502 assembly didn't make the list.

  • #30
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    where the $#@! is perl?

  • #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The University View Post
    mildly interesting programming trends from who is hiring: http://wih.mdnbar.com

    oddly enough, 6502 assembly didn't make the list.
    These types of graphs never make any sense because once you've worked as a programmer for more than a year you're likely using multiple languages/frameworks anyways.

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    Any reason for somebody getting a late start in programming to bother trying to learn something like C++, F#, Haskell? Or is the learning curve so steep that I'd be retirement age before feeling comfortable with it?

  • #33
    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    Yeah, I'm a neurologist. Mostly like what I do, but the profession of medicine is in a huge amount of flux. I expect in 10 to 20 yrs it will either be overtaken by AI or insufferable and unprofitable. People have come to hate doctors. It's crazy. I'm just trying to stay ahead of the curve so when either I burn out or the profession does I'm not stuck with my $#@! in my hand and no marketable skills.
    Sounds like a plan. I see that bioinformatics, i.e. software and data-mining in bio/health fields is getting to be kind of a big deal.

  • #34
    asshat DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    Any reason for somebody getting a late start in programming to bother trying to learn something like C++, F#, Haskell? Or is the learning curve so steep that I'd be retirement age before feeling comfortable with it?
    It's pretty unlikely you'll ever need to use C++. It's a hard language to understand and master, and is only really used today in mammoth "Systems Applications", i.e. a compiler, or the Java Virtual Machine, or a resource scheduler ( Mesos ), or a Database. If you really want to get into systems programming, it's a lot easier to jump into plain C.

    Avoid Functional Languages for the moment ( whether that's ML like Haskell / Scala / F# or a LISP ). It's not that they are bad ( I personally prefer a functional style to an imperative one ), but they are very confusing compared to imperative languages.

  • #35
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    I have given a lot of thought to trying one of these schools but it hasn't really been practical for me due to time/budget constraints. I've been teaching myself as much as possible over the last few years and feel like I'm semi-competent but always learning more. I've found that there are lots of good resources available for free but it can be hard to put it all together into a meaningful project.

    I'd love to make a switch to coding for a living but it seems like it would be a significant step back salary-wise for where I might be able to enter the market. I'm always curious what the job and salary prospects look like over time as you move forward (hopefully!).

    Everything I have read says that people are mostly evaluated on how they perform but what does it take for somebody self taught to get a foot in the door? I want to try to get involved in some open source projects but I'm not sure exactly where to start with that.

  • #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Toht View Post
    Everything I have read says that people are mostly evaluated on how they perform but what does it take for somebody self taught to get a foot in the door? I want to try to get involved in some open source projects but I'm not sure exactly where to start with that.
    Read my couple of posts in this thread. I had a Bio undergrad degree and only did a little CS in college. You have to be willing to take a big pay cut in the beginning if you've been working in a career for several years. I got a job as a "software tester" even though it never involved being a QA. Many people start out as QAs which allows them to learn more coding (being around software developers plus writing their own code to automate tests). You might have better prospects if you graduate from one of these schools, but you'll likely not start out at anything above a Jr. Developer and you'll have paid $10k or more.

    Contributing to Open Source projects can be a great thing to put on your resume. You can often make very simple improvements to the code base or documentation and create a pull request for that, also depending on how comfortable you are with coding, there are only a million guides out there that show you how to build an entire web/mobile application from start to finish. PluralSight is a great resource for these and costs 29/mo or 299/year and that's after a free trial.

  • #37
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    It's a tough field to get into, and especially if you're already in a career.

    Fresh out of school you're not going to make much. I've seen entry ranges from $30k-$40k, sometimes a little less. Experience is the key. You need experience, contacts/associates/references from that experience, and something to put onto your resume. As mentioned, open source projects are a great way to get your foot in the door. You'll have to get into their community, get to know people, and interact a ton. Make contributions and improvements, get to really know the project team, and effectively become their bitch. Fix their little bugs, minuscule issues/requests, whatever. Be Johnny on the spot. If your work and effort are good enough, they may invite you onto the team.

    Spread your time across a few projects at the same time in that manner. If they're "competing" products then use different screen names and avatars on their boards. I won't lie, it takes a lot of time to go that route. However, you can not only build some good experience, but make some great friends along the way as well. Those friends turn into references and will help get your foot in the door somewhere.

    While involved in those communities you'll find people coming in and looking for recommendations on somewhere to get a project done. Once you're comfortable you can dip your toes in that water if you like. More bullets to the resume, more references generated. Provided you don't $#@! $#@! up of course.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is that if you're in an established career then you're not going to just take a short course and enter the field. It's going to take several years to learn and build your resume and portfolio. At that point you won't be in the jr category, but you won't be in the sr category either. At least you won't starve, so that's a plus.

    Coding isn't going to make you rich in 99% of cases. There are rare exceptions of course, but overall you have better chances of hitting the lottery. It can, once you're properly experienced, keep you quite comfortable in life.

  • #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKthunder View Post
    It's slow, and the bigger your application/program is the more difficult it is to scale. Many ruby platforms I've been invovled with end up completely reengineering from the ground up after they reach a certain tipping point. And while yes that is a design problem, the issue is that ruby is so single threaded that it's hard to correct without starting over so you end up with a ton of patch work which only exacerbates the problem.
    Regarding this, would using something other than mainstream ruby interpreter solve that single threading issue? Rubinius or JRuby are ones I've read about. Or is the slowness more intrinsic than that?

  • #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by The University View Post
    mildly interesting programming trends from who is hiring: http://wih.mdnbar.com

    oddly enough, 6502 assembly didn't make the list.
    The Stack Overflow Developer Survey (it's probably 6-9 months old) has better and more interesting data.

    http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016

  • #40
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    So, uh... should i throw away my COBOL books?

  • #41
    asshat DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snacks View Post
    So, uh... should i throw away my COBOL books?
    I did some FORTRAN programming like 10+ years ago, so a lot of recruiter algorithms have me pegged as someone that knows older languages ( like COBOL ).

    About every ~6 months or so, I'll get recruiter email asking me if I'm willing to take an URGENT COBOL contract for 6 months in Savannah or Bangor or some other city. Rates are always north of $150, the last one I had was $180 per hour. If you're willing to be a vagabond and really know COBOL, you can make some major money moving those outdated code bases to something current.

  • #42
    asshat DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DFWBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    Regarding this, would using something other than mainstream ruby interpreter solve that single threading issue? Rubinius or JRuby are ones I've read about. Or is the slowness more intrinsic than that?
    There are a bunch of answers to this. Part of it is intrinsic to the nature of un-typed languages. Ruby has to expend an enormous amount of processing power ( as does JS, as does Python ) type checking at runtime to ensure you don't add 1 to true.

    Another part of it is that the Ruby culture is not one of optimization - the MRI code isn't anybodies idea of good C. When a Ruby programmer has something that's too slow to do in Ruby, they typically don't optimize Ruby to solve it, they just change languages.

    People don't use ( mostly ) other Ruby interpreters because so many I/O libs rely on the Ruby C interface to function. So if you're running on JRuby and want to talk to a database, you can't do it the Ruby way, you have to use the Java libs. Now, there's nothing wrong w/ the Java libs, it's just that none of them integrate w/ other libraries in the overall Ruby ecosystem.

  • #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFWBear View Post
    There are a bunch of answers to this. Part of it is intrinsic to the nature of un-typed languages. Ruby has to expend an enormous amount of processing power ( as does JS, as does Python ) type checking at runtime to ensure you don't add 1 to true.

    Another part of it is that the Ruby culture is not one of optimization - the MRI code isn't anybodies idea of good C. When a Ruby programmer has something that's too slow to do in Ruby, they typically don't optimize Ruby to solve it, they just change languages.

    People don't use ( mostly ) other Ruby interpreters because so many I/O libs rely on the Ruby C interface to function. So if you're running on JRuby and want to talk to a database, you can't do it the Ruby way, you have to use the Java libs. Now, there's nothing wrong w/ the Java libs, it's just that none of them integrate w/ other libraries in the overall Ruby ecosystem.
    Thanks for concise answer. This place is better than stackoverflow.

  • #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by branthebuilder View Post
    Thanks for concise answer. This place is better than stackoverflow.
    Well yeah. People's avatars here can have tits.

  • #45
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    would be computer dudes and dudettes if you want a gaurenteeded computer job for reasonably big bucks, learn COBOL the language that the world runs on. there are trillions of lines of COBOL running all kinds of $#@! and COBOL jockeys like me are retiring in droves. somebody's gotta maintain all that $#@! and it could be you.

    upside, you got a job damn near forever, downside you will be up to your eyeballs in ancient spaggetti code that has been modified and patched a billion times and can be a pain in the ass to work with.

    bonus bennie this hot bitch is your goddess...






    ensure you don't add 1 to true?

    $#@! that noise, in COBOL if you want to add 1 to true, go right ahead, COBOL can handle it no sweat unlike those so called modern pussy ass languages.
    Last edited by MrPhlegm; 12-03-2016 at 08:05 PM.

  • #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPhlegm View Post
    would be computer dudes and dudettes if you want a gaurenteeded computer job for reasonably big bucks, learn COBOL the language that the world runs on. there are trillions of lines of COBOL running all kinds of $#@! and COBOL jockeys like me are retiring in droves. somebody's gotta maintain all that $#@! and it could be you.

    upside, you got a job damn near forever, downside you will be up to your eyeballs in ancient spaggetti code that has been modified and patched a billion times and can be a pain in the ass to work with.

    ensure you don't add 1 to true?

    $#@! that noise, in COBOL if you want to add 1 to true, go right ahead, COBOL can handle it no sweat unlike those so called modern pussy ass languages.
    If you have experience with other languages, how long would it take to learn well enough to be marketable?

  • #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by retread View Post
    If you have experience with other languages, how long would it take to learn well enough to be marketable?
    do you have any database skillz?

    got any DB2 skillz.

    a month to learn COBOL. it isnt hard to learn if you know how to program in another language.

    IEDP is what you gotta know.

    Identification division. > name of the program and some other stuff.

    Environment division. > files and their hooks to external filenames in the JCL (IBM) or ECL (Univac)

    Data division. > all the data structures needed by the program.

    Procedure division. > le code that does the work.

    that is your basic COBOL program.

    for a UNIVAC job using DMS1100, a heiracachalalalal database system you gotta know the four types of currency, Area, Record, Set, and Run Unit.

    Univac DMS1100 and RDMS is my skill set so when I got laid off at Carnival the only places that had available jobs were in Albany and washington state. I said $#@! that I will retire and park cars for mickey mouse. UNIVAC flavor stuff https://support.microfocus.com/do$#@!...s01/guunis.htm

    so learn IBM or Microfocus or something like that IBM flavor is EVERYWHERE.

  • #48
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    Apparently, coding schools are NOT the answer...

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...coding-schools

  • #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornlover View Post
    Apparently, coding schools are NOT the answer...

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...coding-schools
    Sounds like what I would have expected. I think it's early days though and the model will eventually work. They should probably focus more on becoming an integrated part of HS AP curricula, rather than career change failures like me.

  • #50
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    Are there any certifications that have any weight? I'm assuming they might be language specific so - I'd be interested in Javascript and PHP to start.

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