+ Reply to Thread
Page 31 of 31 FirstFirst ... 21 27 28 29 30 31
Results 1,501 to 1,546 of 1546

Thread: Let's predict the Big 12 ***AS OF THIS MOMENT***

  1. #1501
    Quote Originally Posted by Range Life View Post
    Kansas will be the overwhelming favorite again.
    If they lose Svi and Graham, they have to replace their entire starting 5. This is also a down recruiting year for Kansas.

    If you're betting on Kansas finally losing the Big 12, next year is the year.

    If Kansas loses Svi and Graham, I think there's a good chance someone else wins the Big 12 next year. That's a lotttttttttttttttt to replace. Kansas has essentially been playing a 7 and 8 man rotation this year, and they might have to replace 5 of those guys.
    Last edited by TexasStrong12; 03-20-2017 at 05:34 AM.

  • #1502
    asshat Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Iowa Hill Country
    Posts
    3,367
    Next year is going to be a rebuild for us as well. It would be great to be the guys that end the streak, but I don't see that happen. I'll be ecstatic with getting to the Dance next year, given all we're losing. It's nice to have a Top 30 guy in Lindell Wigginton, but I'm planning on some rough moments and a steep learning curve.

  • #1503
    asshat jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm a dick... from kansas
    Posts
    7,928
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasStrong12 View Post
    If they lose Svi and Graham, they have to replace their entire starting 5. This is also a down recruiting year for Kansas.

    If you're betting on Kansas finally losing the Big 12, next year is the year.

    If Kansas loses Svi and Graham, I think there's a good chance someone else wins the Big 12 next year. That's a lotttttttttttttttt to replace. Kansas has essentially been playing a 7 and 8 man rotation this year, and they might have to replace 5 of those guys.
    It will be tough but we have two, four or five star, guys that sat this year due to transfer. So we do have guys familiar with the system. Vick and udoka will be back which will shore up 4 spots with experience. With all of the coaching changes I expect a 4 or 5 star pg to come in. That's going to be tough handing the reigns over to a freshman but hopefully we get a pg with confidence that can contribute at a high level. It's pretty clear to me that self is a big time slow player in recruiting these days and he has snatched some great talent after the coaching carousel gets underway. Illinois has 3 targets that we will no doubt go after, a big and 2 pgs.

    Bills biggest recruiting job is going to be with graham. It will be a tough one. Wayne Selden left after a ho-hum third year and was not drafted. He's just played in 3 games for the pelicans and was signed by the grizzlies so there is now evidence that you don't need to be drafted to have an immediate impact st the NBA level if you perform right. Graham might see that and say $#@! it I'm out.

    It could be a very tough year but then again it is bill self. We lost 7 contributors and like 85% of our scoring after 2008 and came back to win the conference by a game (14-2 record) on the backs of sherron Collins and cole Aldrich alone (Morris twins were freshmen as well as tyshawn Taylor as a frosh). Collins was a junior and Aldrich was a sophomore.

    next year if we win it then Self will probably win coach of the year again if we lose everyone.
    Last edited by jhawk; 03-20-2017 at 09:33 AM.

  • #1504
    asshat oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dana Holgorsen's wing man
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Nobis View Post
    What's the deal with osu's coach bailing after 1 year? A lot more money offered at a real basketball school? Hated living in Oklahoma?
    We have more Final Four appearances than Illinois (6 vs. 5) and the last time we both were there is separated by one year (2005 for Illinois vs. 2004 for OSU).

    I have no idea what happened with Underwood, but it appears to me is that the bottom line is that Illinois was willing to make him one of the top 10-12 paid coaches in the country. His starting salary at Illinois will only trail Bill Self and Bob Huggins in the Big 12. So he will be making more than what Lon Kruger, Scott Drew and Shaka Smart all make, despite not achieving anything anywhere near what those guys have, in terms of success in a P5 conference and the NCAA Tournament.

    I get that you have to pay for quality and despite finishing .500 and losing in the first round, it did appear that Underwood was/is a great coach, but I'm not sure OSU can be faulted for not wanting to make Underwood a top 10 paid coach in the country after year one in which he (being honest) didn't even achieve what Travis Ford did in his first year (finish above .500 in the Big 12 and win an NCAA Tournament game).

    OSU was already paying him 3x what he made at SFA and was prepared to more than double his first year's salary (roughly $1mm per to around $2.2mm plus bonuses).

    Point being, it's not like OSU was offering him pennies on the dollar or low-balling him. We were offering him a significant increase that would put him in the top tier of Big 12 coaches DESPITE having exactly one season of P5 experience under his belt with results that, while were an improvement on the previous season, were hardly something that most places would consider "top 10 paid coaches in the country" worthy. Of course, Illinois decided that was the case and so Underwood bolted after one season.

  • #1505
    asshat jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm a dick... from kansas
    Posts
    7,928
    From what I have read he went back to the OSU AD and said "I have $3mm on the table from Illinois" and scheduled to meet with him at their first weekend site. The AD came back with $2.2mm when Underwood was willing to take $2.9mm. After that Underwood didn't talk to the AD again until he tendered his resignation.

    You have to respect that a little at the minimum. I deal in real estate acquisitions and a lot of people get caught up in the negotiation because they want one of two things (sometimes both); 1. to "win" the negotiation or 2. to have a fun negotiation because it is an escape from what their boring mundane duties entail (a lot of CFO's like messing with real estate deals because they think they can). My company doesn't jack around with back and forth negotiation. We have a price, we make an offer, we get a counter and we give a best and final (many times just agree to the counter. If the counter from the seller is more than a few percentage points off from our original we don't even bother with a best and final. We also never low ball so it isn't like we aren't trying to hose someone. We have return requirements and we don't waste time trying to make every piece of the deal work perfectly.

    Underwood probably doesn't have patience for negotiation which is respectable. He wants to coach, not nickel and dime an AD. He went to a place that won't nickel and dime him, or at least that is what he was feeling at the time of the decision. Can't fault him for that.

  • #1506
    asshat oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dana Holgorsen's wing man
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by jhawk View Post
    From what I have read he went back to the OSU AD and said "I have $3mm on the table from Illinois" and scheduled to meet with him at their first weekend site. The AD came back with $2.2mm when Underwood was willing to take $2.9mm. After that Underwood didn't talk to the AD again until he tendered his resignation.

    You have to respect that a little at the minimum. I deal in real estate acquisitions and a lot of people get caught up in the negotiation because they want one of two things (sometimes both); 1. to "win" the negotiation or 2. to have a fun negotiation because it is an escape from what their boring mundane duties entail (a lot of CFO's like messing with real estate deals because they think they can). My company doesn't jack around with back and forth negotiation. We have a price, we make an offer, we get a counter and we give a best and final (many times just agree to the counter. If the counter from the seller is more than a few percentage points off from our original we don't even bother with a best and final. We also never low ball so it isn't like we aren't trying to hose someone. We have return requirements and we don't waste time trying to make every piece of the deal work perfectly.

    Underwood probably doesn't have patience for negotiation which is respectable. He wants to coach, not nickel and dime an AD. He went to a place that won't nickel and dime him, or at least that is what he was feeling at the time of the decision. Can't fault him for that.
    Well that first part is rumor and nobody knows what really happened in the negotiation. My one inside guy (more from him below) told me that the $2.2mm offer was on the table BEFORE Underwood started talking with Illionis. And given what Underwood is making this year (~$1mm), I'd hardly call more than doubling his salary "nickle and diming" him.

    So he may have told Holder that Illinois was offering $3mm or maybe he didn't. If he did, Holder might not have believed it because again -- this would be making him a top 10 paid coach in the country. He would be making more than coaches in the Big 12 who have taken teams to the Final Four as recently as last year.

    I find it a little unbelievable that Underwood would have stayed for some magical number that OSU was unwilling to meet that was below Illionis' outrageous offer, mainly because my one inside guy told me that everyone in the OSU athletics department was legitimately shocked by the Underwood news. The prevailing thought was they were still negotiating and then all of a sudden the news broke that he was gone.

    I think Illinois just (perhaps unexpectedly) backed up the Brinks Truck and Underwood just took it and left. Maybe he was "tired" of negotiating or maybe he didn't like Holder.

    Based on what I know, I just don't believe that he gave OSU much of a chance after they offered the $2.2mm amount and (again, based on my guy) OSU wasn't even given a chance to offer more.

  • #1507
    asshat TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Usually cruising down back alleys
    Posts
    3,261
    Quote Originally Posted by oSuJeff97 View Post
    Well that first part is rumor and nobody knows what really happened in the negotiation. My one inside guy (more from him below) told me that the $2.2mm offer was on the table BEFORE Underwood started talking with Illionis. And given what Underwood is making this year (~$1mm), I'd hardly call more than doubling his salary "nickle and diming" him.

    So he may have told Holder that Illinois was offering $3mm or maybe he didn't. If he did, Holder might not have believed it because again -- this would be making him a top 10 paid coach in the country. He would be making more than coaches in the Big 12 who have taken teams to the Final Four as recently as last year.

    I find it a little unbelievable that Underwood would have stayed for some magical number that OSU was unwilling to meet that was below Illionis' outrageous offer, mainly because my one inside guy told me that everyone in the OSU athletics department was legitimately shocked by the Underwood news. The prevailing thought was they were still negotiating and then all of a sudden the news broke that he was gone.

    I think Illinois just (perhaps unexpectedly) backed up the Brinks Truck and Underwood just took it and left. Maybe he was "tired" of negotiating or maybe he didn't like Holder.

    Based on what I know, I just don't believe that he gave OSU much of a chance after they offered the $2.2mm amount and (again, based on my guy) OSU wasn't even given a chance to offer more.
    Had you signed the petition for Holder to resign?

  • #1508
    Quote Originally Posted by oSuJeff97 View Post
    Well that first part is rumor and nobody knows what really happened in the negotiation. My one inside guy (more from him below) told me that the $2.2mm offer was on the table BEFORE Underwood started talking with Illionis. And given what Underwood is making this year (~$1mm), I'd hardly call more than doubling his salary "nickle and diming" him.

    So he may have told Holder that Illinois was offering $3mm or maybe he didn't. If he did, Holder might not have believed it because again -- this would be making him a top 10 paid coach in the country. He would be making more than coaches in the Big 12 who have taken teams to the Final Four as recently as last year.

    I find it a little unbelievable that Underwood would have stayed for some magical number that OSU was unwilling to meet that was below Illionis' outrageous offer, mainly because my one inside guy told me that everyone in the OSU athletics department was legitimately shocked by the Underwood news. The prevailing thought was they were still negotiating and then all of a sudden the news broke that he was gone.

    I think Illinois just (perhaps unexpectedly) backed up the Brinks Truck and Underwood just took it and left. Maybe he was "tired" of negotiating or maybe he didn't like Holder.

    Based on what I know, I just don't believe that he gave OSU much of a chance after they offered the $2.2mm amount and (again, based on my guy) OSU wasn't even given a chance to offer more.
    I agree with all of this.

    Also, I'm glad we didn't pay him $3MM after one mediocre to good year. He hasn't earned it yet. Illinois obviously disagrees so good for him. He better produce results for that kind of money. It's clear he wasn't at OSU for the long haul so better to just move on.

    I was pissed that Holder screwed this up initially. If he really offered $2.2MM, I have no issue with that. Sounds like he and Underwood didn't have a good relationship though which has been an ongoing concern and he should be held accountable for it at some point. Had he lost Gundy, I may have been done with OSU sports forever.
    Last edited by Jonkr15; 03-20-2017 at 07:50 PM.

  • #1509
    asshat Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Moe's Tavern
    Posts
    10,033
    I dunno. It may be out of malice but some word of things he's said about his players, way he's treated media and consecutive exits without talking to his players presents a side of him that's not all flattering. He's also saying literally the exact same phrases from when he joined the Pokes.

    I think he's a mercenary who is good at selling himself while raising his stock...as he should...only time will tell what he's really capable at P5 level with his system and players. SFA wasn't in the $#@!ter when he took over, and he inherited a great core at OSU (half of which was injured almost all of last season). If he sticks around for that Illini counteract then we will see.

    I'm actually with Holder that he's not worth top-10 money and if he meant what he'd said, he'd take doubling his pay and get to $3M in another few years. The conference average is skewed by Self, Huggy, Lon who've actually been HC for years and reached final fours.

    Only time will tell. I hate that he left as he said all the right things and was an obvious improvement over Ford (in-game and offense, his rebounding philosophy killed our transition defense)...but to hear literally the exact same words at Illinois soured me on 'pay whatever he wants' after a by-definition average season.

  • #1510
    asshat Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Moe's Tavern
    Posts
    10,033
    Oh and love that he did the pistols firing at his intro press conference...unless it's some Illini hand gesture I don't know about.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timei...3Fsource%3Ddam

  • #1511
    asshat oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dana Holgorsen's wing man
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Homercles View Post
    I dunno. It may be out of malice but some word of things he's said about his players, way he's treated media and consecutive exits without talking to his players presents a side of him that's not all flattering. He's also saying literally the exact same phrases from when he joined the Pokes.

    I think he's a mercenary who is good at selling himself while raising his stock...as he should...only time will tell what he's really capable at P5 level with his system and players. SFA wasn't in the $#@!ter when he took over, and he inherited a great core at OSU (half of which was injured almost all of last season). If he sticks around for that Illini counteract then we will see.

    I'm actually with Holder that he's not worth top-10 money and if he meant what he'd said, he'd take doubling his pay and get to $3M in another few years. The conference average is skewed by Self, Huggy, Lon who've actually been HC for years and reached final fours.

    Only time will tell. I hate that he left as he said all the right things and was an obvious improvement over Ford (in-game and offense, his rebounding philosophy killed our transition defense)...but to hear literally the exact same words at Illinois soured me on 'pay whatever he wants' after a by-definition average season.
    I agree with all of this. I was mad at Holder at first, but as more information comes out, I'm less mad at Holder and more mad at Underwood, mainly because he won't just admit what this was --- a money grab. All of that backdoor $#@! coming out about OSU "not caring about basketball" or whatever is just CYA bull$#@!. OSU cared enough about basketball to hire Underwood from SFA and triple the salary he was making there... and then offer to more than double his salary in his second year.

    Do I think Underwood is a great coach? Yes, I think he probably is.

    But do I think that after one above average season as a P5 coach he deserves to make more than Lon Kruger, who has taken MULTIPLE TEAMS to the Final Four, and was in the Final Four LAST YEAR? Hell no. But I guess Illinois thinks he is, so more power to them I guess.
    Last edited by oSuJeff97; 03-21-2017 at 11:12 AM.

  • #1512
    asshat oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dana Holgorsen's wing man
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Homercles View Post
    Oh and love that he did the pistols firing at his intro press conference...unless it's some Illini hand gesture I don't know about.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timei...3Fsource%3Ddam
    Illinois stole that from Texas Tech, obviously.

  • #1513
    asshat bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club bularry Shaggy Gold Club
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    11,328
    so who does OSU hire and how much do they pay him?

  • #1514
    asshat Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis Shaggy Gold Club Tommy Nobis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Screwston
    Posts
    11,489
    shaka obviously

  • #1515
    asshat Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Moe's Tavern
    Posts
    10,033
    Evans is gone. What a week

  • #1516
    asshat MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10 Probably Shaggy upper class MNLonghorn10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    RIP HARAMBE
    Posts
    56,122
    ouch. usually its knee jerk when you hear "plans to return" immediately after a tough tourney loss

  • #1517
    Well, not surprising at all after the coach left. Good luck to him.

    We'll likely be $#@!ty again next year.

  • #1518
    A lot of Big 12 teams rebuilding next year. Next year will be interesting.

  • #1519
    asshat oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dana Holgorsen's wing man
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10 View Post
    ouch. usually its knee jerk when you hear "plans to return" immediately after a tough tourney loss
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonkr15 View Post
    Well, not surprising at all after the coach left. Good luck to him.

    We'll likely be $#@!ty again next year.
    Yeah I think Evans was legitimately probably 50/50 after the other day, but when Underwood left, that became 100% gone. It would have been his third coach in three years, so I don't blame him.

    I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to say we'll be "$#@!ty." Jeff Carroll is a star who can be built around, and we have some good pieces coming back in Averette, Solomon and Dillard. Then several of the freshmen showed signs this year... Waters, McGriff and Dzagwa can all fill out roles, and also remember we'll get Tavarius Shine back, who up until this year had shown more than Jeff Carroll. We also have the 7' shot-blocker guy who transferred from St. John's becoming eligible.

    So yeah... losing Evans and Forte (and Hammonds to a certain extent) will hurt, but the cupboard is hardly bare. One key will be if OSU chooses to release the two guys we have signed for next year. I'm guessing Holder will, although he might wait and give the new coach a chance to recruit them first.

    Quote Originally Posted by bularry View Post
    so who does OSU hire and how much do they pay him?
    No telling. But OSU will have some significant financial flexibility since Illinois paid us $3mm for the buyout. That basically gets us totally out from under the Travis Ford situation with extra to spare. OSU could legitimately pay $2.5-$3.0mm for a "big name", but the problem is that "big name" doesn't appear to be out there. Gregg Marshall might be the biggest, but he's shown little to no interest in leaving Wichita State, and I believe he's already making more than $3mm there.

    There is the "hire Doug Gottlieb" chorus, of course... and the good thing with him is you wouldn't have to pay him much of anything, relatively speaking. Gottlieb is a high risk/high reward hire, and Holder seems pretty risk-averse if you ask me.

    To me, Tim Jankovich from SMU makes a TON of sense. He played at K-State... was actually an assistant at OSU under Eddie and was an assistant at KU under Self.

  • #1520
    Quote Originally Posted by bularry View Post
    so who does OSU hire and how much do they pay him?
    Tom Crean? IU probably still owes him a bunch of money so you could get him cheap.

  • #1521
    asshat jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm a dick... from kansas
    Posts
    7,928
    Quote Originally Posted by oSuJeff97 View Post
    Yeah I think Evans was legitimately probably 50/50 after the other day, but when Underwood left, that became 100% gone. It would have been his third coach in three years, so I don't blame him.

    I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to say we'll be "$#@!ty." Jeff Carroll is a star who can be built around, and we have some good pieces coming back in Averette, Solomon and Dillard. Then several of the freshmen showed signs this year... Waters, McGriff and Dzagwa can all fill out roles, and also remember we'll get Tavarius Shine back, who up until this year had shown more than Jeff Carroll. We also have the 7' shot-blocker guy who transferred from St. John's becoming eligible.

    So yeah... losing Evans and Forte (and Hammonds to a certain extent) will hurt, but the cupboard is hardly bare. One key will be if OSU chooses to release the two guys we have signed for next year. I'm guessing Holder will, although he might wait and give the new coach a chance to recruit them first.



    No telling. But OSU will have some significant financial flexibility since Illinois paid us $3mm for the buyout. That basically gets us totally out from under the Travis Ford situation with extra to spare. OSU could legitimately pay $2.5-$3.0mm for a "big name", but the problem is that "big name" doesn't appear to be out there. Gregg Marshall might be the biggest, but he's shown little to no interest in leaving Wichita State, and I believe he's already making more than $3mm there.

    There is the "hire Doug Gottlieb" chorus, of course... and the good thing with him is you wouldn't have to pay him much of anything, relatively speaking. Gottlieb is a high risk/high reward hire, and Holder seems pretty risk-averse if you ask me.

    To me, Tim Jankovich from SMU makes a TON of sense. He played at K-State... was actually an assistant at OSU under Eddie and was an assistant at KU under Self.
    The big problem is that $3mm is pretty much the market for an unproven, albeit fast rising, coach. You have Underwood and Cuonzo Martin both getting $3mm. Not only are they getting that deal but they are getting 6 & 7 years with it. OSU might have to pay someone like Archie Miller $3mm. Shaka Smart is earning $3mm. Mick Cronin is at $2.2mm so that should be an obvious target if your upper end is $3mm and you want consistency. You aren't going to "steal" a big name with $3mm these days. That's relatively chump change and as long as schools like MU are willing to throw that out to a relatively bad coach you are going to have to raise your floor or really bargain shop like with Gotleib.

    If you're looking to hire someone that has won then you really aren't going to pay less $3mm this year unless you get a discount on Crean.

    It's a tough market right now because so many P5 teams are going to be looking.

  • #1522
    asshat Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles Shaggy Gold Club Homercles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Moe's Tavern
    Posts
    10,033
    I don't think $3 was a huge issue necessarily, BU salary was set to rise to that. I do think it's hefty as having not 'won' like a Crean who has hardware and second weekend trips...my take was Holder is gun shy and BU has a huge ego with cash on the table knowing how to sell himself.

    Without the Ford bs and a year's salary in the bank from BU buyout...should be able to pay for proven talent or take a risk...I just hate the waiting.

    Illinois has a good class coming in which should help Underwood in a somewhat weak B10 that has legit bottom feeders. I still think between the buyout and salary they overpaid but who knows it's onto someone else now

  • #1523
    bunghole Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life is probably pretty witty. or good at photoshop. or porn. Range Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Eastside
    Posts
    881
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasStrong12 View Post
    If they lose Svi and Graham, they have to replace their entire starting 5. This is also a down recruiting year for Kansas.

    If you're betting on Kansas finally losing the Big 12, next year is the year.

    If Kansas loses Svi and Graham, I think there's a good chance someone else wins the Big 12 next year. That's a lotttttttttttttttt to replace. Kansas has essentially been playing a 7 and 8 man rotation this year, and they might have to replace 5 of those guys.
    People can sleep on Kansas next year it's cool. Self will just turn that team into winning the conference by at least 2 games and a top 2-3 seed in the tournament. Newman and Vick are going to be complete studs. Udoka is going to be a beast. Billy, Bragg and Coleby will solidify a really solid front court. If Graham does stay the back court will be one of the best again.

  • #1524
    Quote Originally Posted by oSuJeff97 View Post
    Yeah I think Evans was legitimately probably 50/50 after the other day, but when Underwood left, that became 100% gone. It would have been his third coach in three years, so I don't blame him.

    I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to say we'll be "$#@!ty." Jeff Carroll is a star who can be built around, and we have some good pieces coming back in Averette, Solomon and Dillard. Then several of the freshmen showed signs this year... Waters, McGriff and Dzagwa can all fill out roles, and also remember we'll get Tavarius Shine back, who up until this year had shown more than Jeff Carroll. We also have the 7' shot-blocker guy who transferred from St. John's becoming eligible.

    So yeah... losing Evans and Forte (and Hammonds to a certain extent) will hurt, but the cupboard is hardly bare. One key will be if OSU chooses to release the two guys we have signed for next year. I'm guessing Holder will, although he might wait and give the new coach a chance to recruit them first.



    No telling. But OSU will have some significant financial flexibility since Illinois paid us $3mm for the buyout. That basically gets us totally out from under the Travis Ford situation with extra to spare. OSU could legitimately pay $2.5-$3.0mm for a "big name", but the problem is that "big name" doesn't appear to be out there. Gregg Marshall might be the biggest, but he's shown little to no interest in leaving Wichita State, and I believe he's already making more than $3mm there.

    There is the "hire Doug Gottlieb" chorus, of course... and the good thing with him is you wouldn't have to pay him much of anything, relatively speaking. Gottlieb is a high risk/high reward hire, and Holder seems pretty risk-averse if you ask me.

    To me, Tim Jankovich from SMU makes a TON of sense. He played at K-State... was actually an assistant at OSU under Eddie and was an assistant at KU under Self.
    I think I saw that Shine wasn't going to return, even before Underwood bolted. I also read that Carroll will qualify for a graduate transfer, so if we don't get the hire right, he could bolt too. If we hire a nobody, we very likely will go down the $#@!ter next year. If we get a home run hire, we could still be pretty good and have a bright future.

  • #1525
    asshat OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, Tx
    Posts
    4,329
    Hey! Did you guys hear the big news! OSU just hired some dude none of us have ever heard of with no experience as a head coach! Exciting time to be a Poke fan!

    Mother $#@!er. It's over. This guy has failure written all over him. Maybe not in life, but there is almost no possible way he's going to succeed at this job. In this conference, with great coaches all over the place, this is the guy we hire. Without even interviewing a single name any of us know, other than Gottlieb. If you were to come up with the perfect candidate to try to save the OSU program, this guy would be the exact opposite of that profile. He's the exact opposite of everything we need. I'm going to go back to paying as much attention to OSU basketball as our AD does.

  • #1526
    Yep, it was fun caring for a year. I'll see ya'll on the football board only for the forseeable future.

  • #1527
    asshat OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, Tx
    Posts
    4,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Pete's Mustache View Post
    Yep, it was fun caring for a year. I'll see ya'll on the football board only for the forseeable future.
    Not a baseball fan?

  • #1528
    asshat Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Derka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    You Only Derka Twice
    Posts
    3,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Range Life View Post
    People can sleep on Kansas next year it's cool. Self will just turn that team into winning the conference by at least 2 games and a top 2-3 seed in the tournament. Newman and Vick are going to be complete studs. Udoka is going to be a beast. Billy, Bragg and Coleby will solidify a really solid front court. If Graham does stay the back court will be one of the best again.
    Exactly this. They've also got Billy Preston coming in, a teammate of Matt Hill's at Oak Hill. He looked great in that tape I saw vs Chino Hills.

  • #1529
    Quote Originally Posted by Range Life View Post
    People can sleep on Kansas next year it's cool. Self will just turn that team into winning the conference by at least 2 games and a top 2-3 seed in the tournament. Newman and Vick are going to be complete studs. Udoka is going to be a beast. Billy, Bragg and Coleby will solidify a really solid front court. If Graham does stay the back court will be one of the best again.
    Nobody is sleeping on Kansas, they will still be really good next year. But if you're picking Kansas to finally lose the Big 12 next year is about as good as any year. That's if Svi and Graham are both gone.

    Potentially replacing 5 starters is tough on anyone.

  • #1530
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangePower View Post
    Not a baseball fan?
    Love it but never really posted on shaggy baseball except for last years post season. I'll check it out this season.

  • #1531

    Let's predict the Big 12 ***AS OF THIS MOMENT***

    I'm off the ledge somewhat. Hearing good things about Boynton. Still think it's too soon in his career to hand him the keys to our program and he likely won't be a great coach right off the bat. I hate that we're a learn on the job school. I still think as a program we're better than internal promotions, but $#@! happens. All I can do is hope for the best. And $#@! Mike Holder.
    Last edited by Pistol Pete's Mustache; 03-24-2017 at 05:12 PM.

  • #1532
    @JonRothstein
    Oklahoma State's Jeffery Carroll will enter the 2017 NBA Draft, but will not hire an agent, per release.

    I have no clue if Carroll is actually going to leave, but if he does Ok. State is losing arguably its top 4 players. There could potentially be a lot of turnover in the Big 12.
    Last edited by TexasStrong12; 03-24-2017 at 05:24 PM.

  • #1533
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasStrong12 View Post
    @JonRothstein
    Oklahoma State's Jeffery Carroll will enter the 2017 NBA Draft, but will not hire an agent, per release.

    I have no clue if Carroll is actually going to leave, but if he does Ok. State is losing arguably its top 4 players. There could potentially be a lot of turnover in the Big 12.
    I don't think he'll get a high enough grade to go pro but I think he'll graduate and be eligible for a grad transfer and I doubt he wants to stay after our ad has made clear he doesn't give a $#@! about the basketball program.

  • #1534
    asshat TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Usually cruising down back alleys
    Posts
    3,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Pete's Mustache View Post
    Yep, it was fun caring for a year. I'll see ya'll on the football board only for the forseeable future.
    Bye4

  • #1535
    asshat TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout Shaggy Silver Club TrouserTrout's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Usually cruising down back alleys
    Posts
    3,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Pete's Mustache View Post
    I'm off the ledge somewhat.
    Goddammit

  • #1536
    asshat jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm a dick... from kansas
    Posts
    7,928
    Wow. Before ford was hired OSU made called on bill self to return home. He must have broken their heart something fierce. Now they hire a guy Witt zero experience st all. At least call crean or groce. They apparently only interviewed underwood assistants and gotleib. Holder should be fired immediately. Also.. good luck retaining the guy. He probably knows you wanted to cheap out so he'll take the first big offer with any success that may come. Or, he'll suck and get fired because he has no clue what he's doing.

    My only question.. is OSU AD having financial trouble?

  • #1537
    I've completely lost interest in OSU basketball. Never thought I'd see the day.

  • #1538
    asshat MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant Shaggy Gold Club MikeGundy'sRant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Back from the abyss.
    Posts
    6,018
    Yep. Pretty sure that OSU basketball is dead again. Ugh.

  • #1539
    asshat OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, Tx
    Posts
    4,329
    Quote Originally Posted by jhawk View Post

    My only question.. is OSU AD having financial trouble?
    I don't know but this move is so unexplainable, the idea did pop into my head.

  • #1540
    asshat OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, Tx
    Posts
    4,329
    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    Bye4
    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    Goddammit
    These two posts don't make sense. Are you being a $#@!?

  • #1541
    asshat jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk Shaggy Silver Club jhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm a dick... from kansas
    Posts
    7,928
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangePower View Post
    I don't know but this move is so unexplainable, the idea did pop into my head.
    It makes a little sense. The Pickens donation ended up cashing out at like $125mm and wasn't that used solely on the football stadium? Then the athletic village was delayed and finally built I've seen the costs on that range from $80mm-$100mm but that was completed in what? 2013? Add in the $#@!ty ford contract and maybe some other projects and the fact that Pickens hadn't donated to athletics in quite a long time I believe and maybe you are out of funds? You can't run day to day operations off donations and only a dozen or so AD's turn a profit. Throw in that holder is a penny pincher (his golf program had $31mm somehow in 2003) and maybe he is really trying to avoid being in the red.

  • #1542
    asshat Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Iowa Hill Country
    Posts
    3,367
    Mike Holder just put OSU basketball down, Old Yeller style. Reminds me of when we hired Wayne Morgan post-Eustachy.

    I have a lot of love, respect, and camaraderie for OSU fans, but someone has to suck in this league and I'd rather it not be us.

  • #1543
    asshat Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Iowa Hill Country
    Posts
    3,367
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasStrong12 View Post
    Nobody is sleeping on Kansas, they will still be really good next year. But if you're picking Kansas to finally lose the Big 12 next year is about as good as any year. That's if Svi and Graham are both gone.

    Potentially replacing 5 starters is tough on anyone.
    Who's gonna beat them?

  • #1544
    asshat oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97 has a gigantic e-peen. oSuJeff97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dana Holgorsen's wing man
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_ISU View Post
    Mike Holder just put OSU basketball down, Old Yeller style. Reminds me of when we hired Wayne Morgan post-Eustachy.

    I have a lot of love, respect, and camaraderie for OSU fans, but someone has to suck in this league and I'd rather it not be us.
    The more I learn about Boynton, the more I'm at least a little hopeful that he could actually be pretty good. Hiring him at least gives us a puncher's chance of holding on to Carroll, and if he does come back, then we'll have a pretty solid core next year.

    Boynton was on Frank Martin's staff at South Carolina with Underwood, and helped build that program to where it is now.

    And heck, what happened at OSU is a similar situation with K-State when Huggins left after one year. They elevated his top assistant, which was Frank Martin.

    And watching his press conference today, I can see why Holder was impressed enough to hire him. So who the hell knows, but I've convinced myself this guy could be good.

  • #1545
    asshat Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU Shaggy Silver Club Al_4_ISU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Iowa Hill Country
    Posts
    3,367
    If it works, great for you guys. I'm just pretty well snake bit over our experience with internal promotion.

  • #1546
    asshat OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower has a gigantic e-peen. OrangePower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, Tx
    Posts
    4,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_ISU View Post
    If it works, great for you guys. I'm just pretty well snake bit over our experience with internal promotion.
    I'm with you. They rarely work and if it does, I imagine he'll be off to the next job first chance he gets.

  • + Reply to Thread
    Page 31 of 31 FirstFirst ... 21 27 28 29 30 31

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts

     

     

    Home .. Advertise .. ShaggyShop .. PanchoChat
    Football .. OC .. Basketball .. Baseball .. Other Sports .. RC Didn't Offer .. Gamboool
    Varsity .. Hole in the Wall .. PCL .. Einstein's .. Nasty's .. GM Steakhouse .. NSAA .. Classics
    Bada Bing .. Bernard .. Nerdz .. Can you help me with this? .. Shagslist .. Cloak Room .. Bellmont