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Thread: Let's predict the Big 12 ***AS OF THIS MOMENT***

  1. #1
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    Let's predict the Big 12 ***AS OF THIS MOMENT***

    1) KU
    2) BU
    2) WVU
    4) ISU
    5) OU
    6) UT
    6) OSU
    8) KSU
    9) TCU
    10) TTU

    This might be the closest battle for first in years between the top 3.
    WVU is a wildcard but Baylor has really $#@!ing impressed especially with their bigs and KU's weakness is that their bigs are foul prone.

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    Baylor always plays well in non con then finishes around 4th or 5th. I think oSu and ISU will surprise this year.

  • #3
    1) KU
    3) Everyone else

  • #4
    I can't disagree with the order of the OP, but other than KU at the top I'm not super sure of where to put everyone else. This is the toughest it's been to predict in the Big XII in a long time. I know that it's KU's to lose, I know that BU looks like a top 10 team as of today, and I know that WVU's style makes them hard to predict (even when we were bad Rick owned WVU while they were usually a thorn in the side of the other top teams in the league), but I don't know much else.

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    Baylor has impressed me most after KU. I don't look forward to those games.

    That said, we did better against a high end team with size (Gonzaga) than I would have expected. We'll finish higher than the media predicted, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaylorHistory View Post
    Baylor always plays well in non con then finishes around 4th or 5th. I think oSu and ISU will surprise this year.
    Baylor usually pulls a football non-con for basketball but they actually stepped the $#@! up this year. 4 victories over teams that went to the Dance last year and three of those were against ranked teams.
    Looking at their schedule; they have SHU and Xavier next week and then they coast into conference with SWAC teams.
    On another note their first Conference game is at OU on the 30th. Has the Big 12 normally started that early? I thought it usually started the first week of January. They got lucky since most the mobile homes will be out of there for the bowl game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    Baylor usually pulls a football non-con for basketball but they actually stepped the $#@! up this year. 4 victories over teams that went to the Dance last year and three of those were against ranked teams.
    Looking at their schedule; they have SHU and Xavier next week and then they coast into conference with SWAC teams.
    On another note their first Conference game is at OU on the 30th. Has the Big 12 normally started that early? I thought it usually started the first week of January. They got lucky since most the mobile homes will be out of there for the bowl game.
    Last year we opened New Year's weekend in Norman. It's early, but only by a couple of days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_ISU View Post
    Last year we opened New Year's weekend in Norman. It's early, but only by a couple of days.
    I saw where you guys lost by two to Georgetown. I'm out with the flu and didn't even know that game was on. Was it as close as the final score indicates or do you think y'all should've won or what?

  • #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    I saw where you guys lost by two to Georgetown. I'm out with the flu and didn't even know that game was on. Was it as close as the final score indicates or do you think y'all should've won or what?
    Gonzaga.

    Yeah, it was close. We had the ball down 2 with 5 seconds left and couldn't get a shot off. They shot at an insane rate in the first half (happens too frequently against us, IMO) from 3 and built an 18 point lead early in the 2nd half. We started playing much better defense (attacking the perimeter to limit the open 3s) and got back into the game for most of the last 5 minutes. We had some really poor shot selection in the last 2 minutes that could have cost us a win.

    I think your OP here is accurate in regards to where we fit in the conference right now. Yesterday gave me a lot of confidence that we can compete against teams with front court size (unlike last year) and holding serve at home in conference play should be our expectation right now. The thing I didn't like was that we couldn't manufacture a shot in those last 5 seconds with a senior-laden back court (Morris, Long, Thomas) that have proven to be clutch shooters at other points in their careers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Teeth View Post
    1) KU
    3) Everyone else
    Yeah, 1) KU
    tie 2-5) OSU, ISU, BU, Wva
    UT
    OU
    Tech
    KSt
    TCU

  • #11
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    Is this going to be the 2016-17 Big 12 meta thread?

  • #12
    Tough as ever from top to bottom. Even TCU is not a layup anymore. The conference has really impressed against non con foes.

    Outside of BU, Iowa State and WV have really impressed me the most thus far. A Big XII road win will be something to cherish.

  • #13
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    I really, really like Iowa State. Right now I would say 1) KU, 2) Baylor, 3) ISU, 4) WVU, 5) OSU, with 2-5 all being potentially tied in the standings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_ISU View Post
    Gonzaga
    Mea culpa, flu has got me $#@!ed up

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoooTex View Post
    I really, really like Iowa State. Right now I would say 1) KU, 2) Baylor, 3) ISU, 4) WVU, 5) OSU, with 2-5 all being potentially tied in the standings
    OSU could easily swap with UT in my OP if Evans is hot. But I think the top four are noticeably above the rest.
    Morris and Long can cause damage for ISU but WVU with their press is a wildcard. After how Baylor played in their tourney they might steal a game from KU. All three of their current bigs can hit from 15 out and at the rim and they apparently are getting another big eligible in January. That's scary.
    KU's biggest problem is that their bigs are foul prone.
    Once again I don't think anyone can match their length but their 1-1-3 zone is weird as $#@! and night cost them a game.

    Don't sleep on Dixon at TCU either. I put them at #9 but they could grab the 8th spot.

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    Since UT FB is done for the year I might watch BU-Xavier on Saturday at 2:30 central. If they win that then they might have a legit shot at challenging KU

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    I honestly don't know much about other teams in the conference and I was off all year last year. I hope to watch more conference ball this year.

    My thoughts are that KU has reloaded and will be a natty contender and then I have almost no clue how the rest of the conference will end up. Usually when I feel this way 2-3 losses will win the big 12 and the rest of the teams are 4-5 losses or more.

    My speculation would be WVU will be tough and probably in the top 4. Baylor is baylor and with scott drew their way to a 3rd to 5th place finish. I have no idea on the other teams. Really interested to see ISU in year 2 with their mainstays gone and UT in year 2 with Shaka. Also TCU, I really want to see them succeed for some reason.

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    Apparently Drew has the second most wins in the big 12 over the past couple years behind KU.

    Dixon and TCU will be the biggest wildcard this season though.

  • #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    1) KU
    2) BU
    2) WVU
    4) ISU
    5) OU
    6) UT
    6) OSU
    8) KSU
    9) TCU
    10) TTU

    This might be the closest battle for first in years between the top 3.
    WVU is a wildcard but Baylor has really $#@!ing impressed especially with their bigs and KU's weakness is that their bigs are foul prone.
    I'll admit that I don't follow all the teams in the league outside of Tech and UT too closely, but can you tell me why you think Tech will finish last after finishing 7th last year and retuning all but one player off of last year's team? I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering what your reasoning is there. I know the league as a whole will be insanely tough this year.
    Last edited by Dirk West; 11-29-2016 at 06:35 PM.

  • #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    Apparently Drew has the second most wins in the big 12 over the past couple years behind KU.

    Dixon and TCU will be the biggest wildcard this season though.
    I wouldn't look too much into that. He's also the most tenured behind self I believe. He's won a lot. He just really hasn't won when it matters (other than the conference tourney).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk West View Post
    I'll admit that I don't follow all the teams in the league outside of Tech and UT too closely, but can you tell me why you think Tech will finish last after finishing 7th last year and retuning all but one player off of last year's team? I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering what your reasoning is there. I know the league as a whole will be insanely tough this year.
    New coach and new scheme on top of the overall conference being stronger (besides Texas) if Texas can't find a PG then they'll slip down. I have more faith in Dixon than Beard due to Dixon being from a P5 (and basketball first) conference.
    If TTU can hold at home they will be higher. In all honesty there's the top 4 (KU, BU, WVU, ISU) and then the rest is a crapshoot. I know the fellow shagsters won't like it *looking at Derka* but Texas could easily finish 8th or 9th with TTU and/or TCU passing them. Talent doesn't mean $#@! if you can't find a PG to run it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhawk View Post
    I wouldn't look too much into that. He's also the most tenured behind self I believe. He's won a lot. He just really hasn't won when it matters (other than the conference tourney).
    MSU and UofL thought the same thing and look what he did. Their game vs Xavier will show if they are forreal since all teams have started to gel together by now in the season.

  • #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhawk View Post
    I wouldn't look too much into that. He's also the most tenured behind self I believe. He's won a lot. He just really hasn't won when it matters (other than the conference tourney).
    He's got a couple of Elite 8s doesn't he?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhawk View Post
    I wouldn't look too much into that. He's also the most tenured behind self I believe. He's won a lot. He just really hasn't won when it matters (other than the conference tourney).
    Why is that so many KU fans refuse to acknowledge that Scott Drew has done a great job at Baylor? Given KU's struggles upfront, Baylor could match up well against KU.

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    I give him all the credit in the world. He's done a great job at Baylor. He's done an out of this world job and Baylor AD should also be praised for giving him the time to fix what they put in his lap. All around great performance with where they were in 2002. I do applaud them.

    But he's not some world beater. He's finished second in the big 12 once with 5 conference losses and 8 total losses. Going into this year he is averaging 9.46 conference losses per year. We only play 18-20 conference games per year depending on when you look. Even taking out the first 4 years he's averaging 7.88 losses per year in The conference. If that is the standard for a good coach then I don't know what to tell you. That's 4th at best in our conference year in and year out.

    I'll digress to the original argument about tenure, this is his 14th year at Baylor. Which is the same year self went to KU. Other than that the next longest tenured of a big 12 coach is Huggins with 10 years at West Virginia. Of course he is going to have more wins when he has a 4 year head start.

    To respond to some other posts, he does have an elite 8. Two in fact and one in a 30 win season. That was a great year.

    No game will show if they are for real until we play in conference. Just like many teams they load up on wins in the nonconference and lose it in the conference. KU also has more losses in conference games. Conference play separates the players from the pretenders.

    From a matchup standpoint KU is very soft inside and we could very well lose because of that. It will cost us games in the big 12. No doubt. But we are also decimating zone defenses with our 3 point shot this year and our top guard play. I don't want to sound like a homer but if we win this year it will be because of our guards. Guards are what kill zones. It will be an even up matchup at the most. That's when coaching steps in...

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    Let's predict the Big 12 ***AS OF THIS MOMENT***

    I think the win total was from like the season that the conference added WVU and TCU. Regardless, Drew is doing this without top 50 players which is pretty much all the Jayhawks have.
    They might be the first to steal won from Phog because your bigs are so foul prone. On the internet boards they are calling this team this best that he has ever had.

    Also, the reason he beat MSU and UofL is because he switched to man defense halfway through the game.
    Last edited by TrouserTrout; 11-30-2016 at 09:22 AM.

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    Wink

    Thank so for the clarification on timeline. Paints a better picture.

    Regarding KU. Josh Jackson was big time. Mason was #131 and was committed to Towson. Graham was committed to Appalachian state when he decommitted and KU offered. He was unranked at that time and shot up to 36 after the KU commitment. I don't have time to look up our other guys but will if pressed. Our two most core players debunk the idea that we are a bunch of 5 star athletes. Self stopped bring them in enmasse when he won in 2008. Realized it's better to have continuity than a revolving door of kids who want to shoot every time they touch the ball.

    Maybe drew is learning that you play to the hand you are dealt and not "my way or the highway" in his coaching style. If so then he will get the most out of his talent and won't hold them back. I look forward to it as a competitive league is better for all teams.
    Last edited by jhawk; 11-30-2016 at 09:41 AM.

  • #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    1) KU
    2) BU
    2) WVU
    4) ISU
    5) OU
    6) UT
    6) OSU
    8) KSU
    9) TCU
    10) TTU

    This might be the closest battle for first in years between the top 3.
    WVU is a wildcard but Baylor has really $#@!ing impressed especially with their bigs and KU's weakness is that their bigs are foul prone.
    I'm cautiously optimistic that the Frogs can win as many as 6 conference games this season. We actually have a real point guard this season instead of 5'10" streak shooting guard playing the point; in fact, we have two good point guards this season. And, we're shooting a much better % from the field and from the line so far this year. We may have to play a little small ball due to lack of quality depth at the 4 but there is hope our Sudanese/Aussie recruit will get cleared by the NCAA before conference play. If he does, the insiders say he is a top 6-7 in the rotation type of player and will see a lot of time on the floor. We'll most likely be in the bottom 1/3 of the league but much more competitive than in years past.

  • #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelosfrog View Post
    I'm cautiously optimistic that the Frogs can win as many as 6 conference games this season. We actually have a real point guard this season instead of 5'10" streak shooting guard playing the point; in fact, we have two good point guards this season. And, we're shooting a much better % from the field and from the line so far this year. We may have to play a little small ball due to lack of quality depth at the 4 but there is hope our Sudanese/Aussie recruit will get cleared by the NCAA before conference play. If he does, the insiders say he is a top 6-7 in the rotation type of player and will see a lot of time on the floor. We'll most likely be in the bottom 1/3 of the league but much more competitive than in years past.
    Good luck to the frogs. I really want to see them be competitive in the league even if it only means their ceiling is #5 in the standings. If the bottom half of our league can compete with the top half each year then we will have a very strong league year in and year out. I really think Dixon can take what Trent did and take it to the next level. You guys will have a physically tough team no matter what and that will always get you wins. Cheers to a great season and a great fresh start.

  • #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_ISU View Post
    He's got a couple of Elite 8s doesn't he?
    He does, and one of those was a really good team. But in both of those E8 runs, the bracket fell apart for him. The 6 wins in those two E8 appearances all came against double digit seeds.

  • #31
    Quote Originally Posted by jhawk View Post
    Good luck to the frogs. I really want to see them be competitive in the league even if it only means their ceiling is #5 in the standings. If the bottom half of our league can compete with the top half each year then we will have a very strong league year in and year out. I really think Dixon can take what Trent did and take it to the next level. You guys will have a physically tough team no matter what and that will always get you wins. Cheers to a great season and a great fresh start.
    Appreciate it. I'm going to try to get out of work early today and go watch my Frogs play Washington. I would like to say I saw Markelle Fultz play in college before he heads for the NBA. We beat Washington in Vegas last week and by some strange quirk of the schedule are playing them again at home tonight at 6:00. If we can knock off UDub twice, we may be middle third of the conference material instead of bottom third.

  • #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolenteHawk View Post
    He does, and one of those was a really good team. But in both of those E8 runs, the bracket fell apart for him. The 6 wins in those two E8 appearances all came against double digit seeds.
    Yeah, we had that set up sitting in front of us in '13. But $#@! Aaron Craft.

  • #33
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    I will never appreciate aaron craft. $#@!weed.

  • #34
    It was really hard to like Aaron Craft with all of the slurping he got. I think that Doj Balbay wasn't far off from Craft as a defender, but you'd think that Craft was Gary Payton + MJ x Scottie the way they talked about him.

  • #35
    bunghole Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night. Longhorn_In_Alabama can play the whole course with a 4 iron. At night.
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    drew has the best bagmen in america.

  • #36
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    Well since the wife is a Baylor grad and I love college basketball (and UT football is done) I'm going on Saturday to see the top 10 matchup between Xavier and Baylor.
    I'm not rooting for meteor and please don't root for meteor as well since I'll be present but rarely do we see top ten matchups in Texas for basketball. She asked me to wear green but I'll wear a neutral color.

    Part of me is excited cause it's a top ten game and the other part is "eh, Baylor"

  • #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolenteHawk View Post
    He does, and one of those was a really good team. But in both of those E8 runs, the bracket fell apart for him. The 6 wins in those two E8 appearances all came against double digit seeds.
    I hate when people bring this up for any team since I and a NOVA kid I watched George Mason (the original Cinderella) make a FF run as a teenager. No one is gifted a win in the tourney. Jayhawks should know that more than anyone.

  • #38
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    New prediction:
    1) KU (wins by 1 or 2 games)
    2) BU
    2) WVU
    4) ISU
    5-10) Crapshoot with cannibalization

  • #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    New prediction:
    1) KU (wins by 1 or 2 games)
    2) BU
    2) WVU
    4) ISU
    5-10) Crapshoot with cannibalization
    I'm really unsure about ISU. I think 4-10 is up for grabs. Unless Al can give us some insight on their team? Al?

  • #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhawk View Post
    I'm really unsure about ISU. I think 4-10 is up for grabs. Unless Al can give us some insight on their team? Al?
    I'm not sure yet either. Great guard play, a little small in the front court, but very athletic and a lot deeper than we've been in the past. We played very well against a large (and talented) Gonzaga team. I expected us to get abused the way Baylor and WVU got us last year, but the senior post transfers did a great job of blocking out and reducing second chance points (which haunted us last year). Our defense looks better, but we're still going to be susceptible to cold shooting nights from Thomas and Long outside. Morris is great as ever, but has struggled scoring at times and actually got benched significant minutes (with foul trouble) against Miami and the team played well in his absence. I think 4th is the right spot for us. We're not as complete as KU, and Baylor and WVU were awful matchups for us last year and we were swept by both. I don't think the rest of the pack is on our level.

    Tonight against Cincy should tell us more.

  • #41
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    Do I have too much faith in Naz and Morris, Al?

  • #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    I hate when people bring this up for any team since I and a NOVA kid I watched George Mason (the original Cinderella) make a FF run as a teenager. No one is gifted a win in the tourney. Jayhawks should know that more than anyone.
    The tournament is a crapshoot, which means if you're seeded decently often enough you're going to have lucky runs and have unlucky early losses. It's not a criticism so much as an observation that a portion of Drew's postseason success has involved 2 different brackets breaking well for him. Now, in fairness, both times he ran into the best team in the field in the E8...one of those by a lot (Kentucky 2012). So, you could argue once in that round he's been a little unlucky for the perspective of Final Four chances. But the bracket breaking well for him leading up to those games is true.

  • #43
    Baylor looks like a monster this season. Fantastic looking team all around. Which probably means they'll be apart of the #2/15 upset come March.

    Regarding Drew's previous E8s, the road was relatively easy for his teams both times, but it's important to note he was also defeated both times by the eventual champion.
    Last edited by Chet Steadman; 12-01-2016 at 08:29 PM.

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    ISU in OT. Mrs Trout got pissy that I wanted to see that instead of Dallas. Not my fault I'm DC born and bled.

  • #45
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    Cincinnati might be the worst offensive team I've ever seen.

  • #46
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    I now believe it will be
    1) KU
    2) BU
    2) WVU
    4-10) cannibalization

  • #47
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    Lump is in the log jam of $#@!

  • #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrouserTrout View Post
    Do I have too much faith in Naz and Morris, Al?
    I guess we all do.

    Looks like those $#@!gots forgot how to play ball

  • #49
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    I'm going to go ahead and say KU will lose 3-4 conference games. In at least 2 of those games we'll be out rebounded. We're so soft inside that any elite level winning will be because of our guards and only our guards. We need a Villanova type run if we are going to make it to/past the elite 8 this year.

  • #50
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    WVU and Baylor will give KU a run for their money. I went to the BU game since UT isn't playing, I could get tickets, it's a top 10 matchup and I love good basketball and there's something about that team. They seem to have that "it" factor.
    WVU really surprised me today too. I saw them losing and then checked up on the game and they blew UVA out it looks like.

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