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Thread: Bernard leaves car running, gets ticket.

  1. #1
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    Bernard leaves car running, gets ticket.

    On a cold morning in Roseville, resident Nick Taylor, 24, drove up to his girlfriend’s house and ran inside to pick her up with her two-year-old son.


    He left his car running in the driveway. Instead of returning to a warm vehicle, he got a costly reminder in the form of a $128 ticket on the windshield from Roseville for leaving a vehicle unattended.


    “I was there for maybe seven or eight minutes before I noticed the ticket,” said Taylor, adding that he was dropping off diapers.


    He ranted about it on Facebook, blaming the dip*** police for not just knocking on the door and telling him to turn off his car, and his post drew thousands of shares and angry comments, many of them on his side.


    Police stand by the ticket.


    “I encourage our officers to write this ticket,” said Roseville Police Chief James Berlin, citing car theft as public safety concern.


    “All it takes is someone to hop in this car and take off. Then there’s a chase often at a high rate of speed and all that could have been prevented,” Chief Berlin added, saying a remote starter includes safeguards against theft.


    The Facebook post scolding Roseville Police Department for what he thought was a waste of resources has stirred a debate about the use of police time and the risks to the community.


    Taylor posted a photo of the ticket with a stinging comment toward the officer involved. “Let’s all take a moment to thank officer dips**t K. Keary for wasting the taxpayer’s money and giving me a ticket for warming up my car in my own damn driveway.”


    Now he says he regrets personally slamming officer Keary. Taylor explains, “I was upset. I appreciate what they do, but don’t they have better things to do?”


    Even though it’s easy to change what he wrote on Facebook, he doesn’t want to because it’s getting so much attention — most of it positive. Taylor said lawyers have offered to represent him after seeing the trending post.


    Did the cops have an ax to grind with him? “No history whatsoever,” said Taylor about any past run-ins with Roseville PD.


    He said he plans to fight the ticket, although after what he wrote about local cops, it’s hard to believe a judge would cast a kind eye on his plea.


    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/01/...sparks-debate/

  • #2
    He's lucky to be alive.

  • #3
    Wow police chief needs a strong talking to.

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    It's illegal to keep your car running in your own driveway?

  • #5
    if this is what the Roseville PD is worried about, they can probably shut the department down and let the community police itself.

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    Heroes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    It's illegal to keep your car running in your own driveway?
    This. He might not have an argument if the car was on public streets, but on private property?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beef Supreme View Post
    This. He might not have an argument if the car was on public streets, but on private property?
    Yes, it is. And I don't have a problem with the law or its enforcement.

    It's pretty much the #1 pathway to getting your car stolen -- leaving it unlocked with the keys in it (which is what you're doing when you leave it running). And while it is on private property, it's accessible to the public (your driveway, an open parking lot, etc., all meet that. Behind the fences on your farm, behind your closed garage door, not so much). Car theft is very often a crime of opportunity, and when committed, it costs the police department time and resources that you and I pay for. I'd rather not my tax dollars go towards investigating the theft of Lazy Man's car that he left running in the driveway so Lazy Thief could just get in and drive off; I'd rather those tax dollars be used to investigate real crime (yeah, yeah, I know -- today, that just means that it'll be more spend on the WAR ON DRUGS!, but a fella can dream).

    If the fine's a big deal to him, the judge should reduce it. But leaving your car running and unlocked is criminal stupidity. We criminalize stupidity in many cases when that stupidity would cost the public money. This is one of those laws. I don't think there needs to be some massive crackdown or task force, but I don't have a problem with the law.

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    Then where do you draw the line? Let's say that car was worth $15,000 or so. Should it be illegal for me to momentarily leave a $15,000 item of jewelry in a labeled box on my driveway? Should I receive a ticket for leaving $15,000 in cash on my porch?

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    Taylor posted a photo of the ticket with a stinging comment toward the officer involved. “Let’s all take a moment to thank officer dips**t K. Keary for wasting the taxpayer’s money and giving me a ticket for warming up my car in my own damn driveway.”
    He's not wasting taxpayers' money, Holmes, he's generating revenue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisketexan View Post
    Yes, it is. And I don't have a problem with the law or its enforcement.

    It's pretty much the #1 pathway to getting your car stolen -- leaving it unlocked with the keys in it (which is what you're doing when you leave it running). And while it is on private property, it's accessible to the public (your driveway, an open parking lot, etc., all meet that. Behind the fences on your farm, behind your closed garage door, not so much). Car theft is very often a crime of opportunity, and when committed, it costs the police department time and resources that you and I pay for. I'd rather not my tax dollars go towards investigating the theft of Lazy Man's car that he left running in the driveway so Lazy Thief could just get in and drive off; I'd rather those tax dollars be used to investigate real crime (yeah, yeah, I know -- today, that just means that it'll be more spend on the WAR ON DRUGS!, but a fella can dream).

    If the fine's a big deal to him, the judge should reduce it. But leaving your car running and unlocked is criminal stupidity. We criminalize stupidity in many cases when that stupidity would cost the public money. This is one of those laws. I don't think there needs to be some massive crackdown or task force, but I don't have a problem with the law.
    Wow.

    Then you might as well arrest anyone who has had a couple of beers, because they MIGHT drive intoxicated. And we all know how expensive and dangerous those are. As well as stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisketexan View Post
    Yes, it is. And I don't have a problem with the law or its enforcement.

    It's pretty much the #1 pathway to getting your car stolen -- leaving it unlocked with the keys in it (which is what you're doing when you leave it running). And while it is on private property, it's accessible to the public (your driveway, an open parking lot, etc., all meet that. Behind the fences on your farm, behind your closed garage door, not so much). Car theft is very often a crime of opportunity, and when committed, it costs the police department time and resources that you and I pay for. I'd rather not my tax dollars go towards investigating the theft of Lazy Man's car that he left running in the driveway so Lazy Thief could just get in and drive off; I'd rather those tax dollars be used to investigate real crime (yeah, yeah, I know -- today, that just means that it'll be more spend on the WAR ON DRUGS!, but a fella can dream).

    If the fine's a big deal to him, the judge should reduce it. But leaving your car running and unlocked is criminal stupidity. We criminalize stupidity in many cases when that stupidity would cost the public money. This is one of those laws. I don't think there needs to be some massive crackdown or task force, but I don't have a problem with the law.
    It didn't say he left it unlocked, but that would make more sense.

  • #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrothaHorn View Post
    Wow.

    Then you might as well arrest anyone who has had a couple of beers, because they MIGHT drive intoxicated. And we all know how expensive and dangerous those are. As well as stupid.
    You can be arrested for leaving a fire unattended outdoors in some jurisdictions.

    You can be arrested for leaving a loaded gun on a table in a public place.


    There are stacks of crimes that are based not on the eventual bad outcome actually happening, but on creating the unreasonable risk of that outcome. Drinking a couple of beers doesn't create an unreasonable risk of you driving drunk. Leaving your car running in a parking lot creates an unreasonable risk of theft.

    This is not a novel or unusual law. Numerous states and municipalities have that law on their books.

  • #14
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    I leave my door unlocked sometimes when i'm walking around outside, within about 1/2 mile of my house, but not always withing sight. Should i get a ticket because someone else might commit a crime?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisketexan View Post
    You can be arrested for leaving a fire unattended outdoors in some jurisdictions.

    You can be arrested for leaving a loaded gun on a table in a public place.


    There are stacks of crimes that are based not on the eventual bad outcome actually happening, but on creating the unreasonable risk of that outcome. Drinking a couple of beers doesn't create an unreasonable risk of you driving drunk. Leaving your car running in a parking lot creates an unreasonable risk of theft.

    This is not a novel or unusual law. Numerous states and municipalities have that law on their books.
    you have created a potentially dangerous situation, this does NOT rely on someone else committing a crime. These are not the same situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ut_ob1 View Post
    you have created a potentially dangerous situation, this does NOT rely on someone else committing a crime. These are not the same situations.
    The gun one sure does.

  • #17
    i do this all the time on cold days. turn the car on, let the engine warm up, let the heater start going, and then bring the kids out and get them in their car seats. you can't wear thick jackets in car seats.

    this is a dumb law. sure someone MIGHT steal a car and it will cost taxpayer money to investigate the theft, but that's WHY WE PAY THEM.

  • #18
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    I leave my car on when I drop stuff at the post office.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisketexan View Post
    You can be arrested for leaving a fire unattended outdoors in some jurisdictions.

    You can be arrested for leaving a loaded gun on a table in a public place.


    There are stacks of crimes that are based not on the eventual bad outcome actually happening, but on creating the unreasonable risk of that outcome. Drinking a couple of beers doesn't create an unreasonable risk of you driving drunk. Leaving your car running in a parking lot creates an unreasonable risk of theft.

    This is not a novel or unusual law. Numerous states and municipalities have that law on their books.
    I made the mistake of using a DWI as an example, that along with an unattended fire and loaded gun are not in the same ballpark as this law. I understand the reasoning behind it, but it's still ridiculous and patronizing. It just leads to more control of a person's life by the state.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsoda3 View Post
    i do this all the time on cold days. turn the car on, let the engine warm up, let the heater start going, and then bring the kids out and get them in their car seats. you can't wear thick jackets in car seats.

    this is a dumb law. sure someone MIGHT steal a car and it will cost taxpayer money to investigate the theft, but that's WHY WE PAY THEM.
    More money in tickets than crime fighting.

  • #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ut_ob1 View Post
    I leave my door unlocked sometimes when i'm walking around outside, within about 1/2 mile of my house, but not always withing sight. Should i get a ticket because someone else might commit a crime?
    If so, I leave my house unlocked so much, I should be in prison.

  • #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisketexan View Post
    The gun one sure does.
    Absolutely does not. If you leave a loaded gun anywhere in public you should assume a child can and will get to it.

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    My parents should have gotten countless tickets back in the day. Well before cars got warm as quick as they do now, they constantly warmed the car up in the winter time when I was little. Hell I see people leave their cars running when they go into gas stations or convenience stores today. If a thief wants to steal your car, they will. I don't think someone is more likely to hop into your car and take off just because it's running.

  • #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ut_ob1 View Post
    Absolutely does not. If you leave a loaded gun anywhere in public you should assume a child can and will get to it.
    children can't get into a running car?

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    Quote Originally Posted by elfenix View Post
    children can't get into a running car?
    You can be arrested for leaving a loaded gun on a table in a public place.
    Please read and try again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisketexan View Post
    Yes, it is. And I don't have a problem with the law or its enforcement.

    It's pretty much the #1 pathway to getting your car stolen -- leaving it unlocked with the keys in it (which is what you're doing when you leave it running). And while it is on private property, it's accessible to the public (your driveway, an open parking lot, etc., all meet that. Behind the fences on your farm, behind your closed garage door, not so much). Car theft is very often a crime of opportunity, and when committed, it costs the police department time and resources that you and I pay for. I'd rather not my tax dollars go towards investigating the theft of Lazy Man's car that he left running in the driveway so Lazy Thief could just get in and drive off; I'd rather those tax dollars be used to investigate real crime (yeah, yeah, I know -- today, that just means that it'll be more spend on the WAR ON DRUGS!, but a fella can dream).

    If the fine's a big deal to him, the judge should reduce it. But leaving your car running and unlocked is criminal stupidity. We criminalize stupidity in many cases when that stupidity would cost the public money. This is one of those laws. I don't think there needs to be some massive crackdown or task force, but I don't have a problem with the law.
    I'm having a hard time following you, though I'm not a lawyer so that may explain it.

    Are you saying that I should be ticketed and fined as a preventive measure against someone else committing a crime against me?

  • #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ut_ob1 View Post
    Please read and try again.
    Since when did kids give a $#@! that they cross an invisible boundary from the street to someone's driveway?

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    I don't have a huge problem with laws like this, but in this particular case, well... there is no state law or local ordinance that seems to apply.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/09...-driveway.html

    The ticket shows ordinance listed as 99006 but there is no ordinance in the city or state that corresponds to 99006. Under the description of the offense, it lists VEH/MOTOR ON UNATTENDED 895. Ordinance 895 is listed as being part of 'rodent control' on Roseville's website.

    FOX 2 contacted the Michigan State Police for more information. Lt. Mike Shaw says there is no state law that prohibits letting your car idle with the keys in the ignition.
    I've looked through the Roseville, Michigan code myself and haven't been able to find anything that would apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ut_ob1 View Post
    I leave my door unlocked sometimes when i'm walking around outside, within about 1/2 mile of my house, but not always withing sight. Should i get a ticket because someone else might commit a crime?
    PM me your precise walking schedule

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    Texas has a statute that would apply:

    Sec. 545.404. UNATTENDED MOTOR VEHICLE. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), an operator may not leave a vehicle unattended without:
    (1) stopping the engine;
    (2) locking the ignition;
    (3) removing the key from the ignition;
    (4) setting the parking brake effectively; and
    (5) if standing on a grade, turning the front wheels to the curb or side of the highway.
    (b) The requirements of Subsections (a)(1), (2), and (3) do not apply to an operator who starts the engine of a vehicle by using a remote starter or other similar device that:
    (1) remotely starts the vehicle's engine without placing the key in the ignition; and
    (2) requires the key to be placed in the ignition or physically present in the vehicle before the vehicle can be operated.

    Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...45.htm#545.404

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    So in Texas I can be ticketed if I walk outside, put the key in my car, start it and go back in the house and let it warm up. However, if I just push the remote start on my key fob then I can't be ticketed. So how the $#@! do they know how you started the car?
    Last edited by NeverMarryAStripper; 01-16-2017 at 11:11 AM.

  • #31
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    Check for keys in the ignition/doors locked?

  • #32
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderlounge View Post
    Check for keys in the ignition/doors locked?
    my car is new enough that i can't lock it from the outside, or with a door open, with the keys in the ignition. only way would be to roll down the window, close the door, then reach in and lock it. which, of course, defeats the purpose.

    i'm going to guess most remote starts lock the doors to avoid liability issues.
    Last edited by elfenix; 01-16-2017 at 03:52 PM. Reason: i suppose i could put the rear seats down and crawl out the trunk.

  • #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfenix View Post
    my car is new enough that i can't lock it from the outside, or with a door open, with the keys in the ignition. only way would be to roll down the window, close the door, then reach in and lock it. which, of course, defeats the purpose.

    i'm going to guess most remote starts lock the doors to avoid liability issues.

    I don't know if they lock the doors but they are supposed to shut the engine off if the car is put in gear without the key fob inside the vehicle

  • #34
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    So the cop gets to come on your property and check to see if there are keys in the ignition? Don't they have enough black people to abuse to occupy their time?

  • #35
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    This reminded me of the APD Bait Car thread.

    http://www.shaggytexas.com/board/sho...-has-ever-done

  • #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfenix View Post
    my car is new enough that i can't lock it from the outside, or with a door open, with the keys in the ignition. only way would be to roll down the window, close the door, then reach in and lock it. which, of course, defeats the purpose.

    i'm going to guess most remote starts lock the doors to avoid liability issues.

    Exactly. I have to lock my doors with my FOB, even if already locked, then hit remote start.

    So if a cops starts poking their nose in your business and sees the keys in the ignition with the doors unlocked, well, you know the rest. Of course one way around that is having 2 sets of keys, or something of the sort, for older vehicles.

  • #37
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    I remote start my truck in the morning every day to let it warm up, for at least 5 minutes. I actually have to press the door lock button twice before I can remote start it, then it stays locked until I get out there and leave. The engine will shut off after maybe 15 minutes if I don't put my keys in.

  • #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fillmore Slim View Post
    I remote start my truck in the morning every day to let it warm up, for at least 5 minutes. I actually have to press the door lock button twice before I can remote start it, then it stays locked until I get out there and leave. The engine will shut off after maybe 15 minutes if I don't put my keys in.

    It's amazing, the technology these days. My car washes my terriers.

  • #39
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    The cop should be charged with trespassing and breaking into a vehicle.

  • #40
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    Stupid $#@!ing law for cold weather locations.

    It's supposed to be 45 below in Fairbanks this week. I happen to be going to Fairbanks for supplies. Once I start my truck in the morning, it will not be turned off until I get back home. Town trips usually take about 10 hours or so. 90% of the vehicles in every parking lot in town will be running. The only time you shut your vehicle down when it is that cold is if you have someplace to plug into or a garage.

  • #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post
    Then where do you draw the line? Let's say that car was worth $15,000 or so. Should it be illegal for me to momentarily leave a $15,000 item of jewelry in a labeled box on my driveway? Should I receive a ticket for leaving $15,000 in cash on my porch?
    If it was cash or jewelry you wouldn't have received a ticket.....the officer however probably would have taken your stuff.

  • #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Brisketexan View Post
    You can be arrested for leaving a fire unattended outdoors in some jurisdictions.

    You can be arrested for leaving a loaded gun on a table in a public place.


    There are stacks of crimes that are based not on the eventual bad outcome actually happening, but on creating the unreasonable risk of that outcome. Drinking a couple of beers doesn't create an unreasonable risk of you driving drunk. Leaving your car running in a parking lot creates an unreasonable risk of theft.

    This is not a novel or unusual law. Numerous states and municipalities have that law on their books.
    While I certainly agree that this type of law is not unusual, I don't think that makes it a particularly good law. I suppose that, enforced with a bit of discretion, the law is ok. But I tend to disfavor laws that are "good" when enforced with discretion, as police, and people in general, seem to be pretty bad at exercising discretion wisely.

  • #43
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    Extra stars for that astute cop and his allegiance to following the letter of the law. $#@!ing $#@!

  • #44
    asshat DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? DocZaius's Avatar
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    According to the guy's Facebook, they showed up in court and the judge granted the cop a continuance because he wasn't prepared or something. New court date is Feb. 23.

  • #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocZaius View Post
    According to the guy's Facebook, they showed up in court and the judge granted the cop a continuance because he wasn't prepared or something. New court date is Feb. 23.
    Wow, that's $#@!ing bull$#@!

  • #46
    To be fair you can get carbon monoxide poisoning when in a stationary car for a while.

  • #47
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    If the state isn't prepared for the hearing, they should automatically be ruled against. So $#@!ing ridiculous.

  • #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggus Duckus View Post
    To be fair you can get carbon monoxide poisoning when in a stationary car for a while.
    If you're parked in a closed garage, buried in a snowbank or have a leaking exhaust. Otherwise nope.

  • #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ut_ob1 View Post
    I leave my door unlocked sometimes when i'm walking around outside, within about 1/2 mile of my house, but not always withing sight. Should i get a ticket because someone else might commit a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huckleberry View Post
    Then where do you draw the line? Let's say that car was worth $15,000 or so. Should it be illegal for me to momentarily leave a $15,000 item of jewelry in a labeled box on my driveway? Should I receive a ticket for leaving $15,000 in cash on my porch?
    Quote Originally Posted by DigglerontheHoof View Post
    If so, I leave my house unlocked so much, I should be in prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stilicho View Post
    I'm having a hard time following you, though I'm not a lawyer so that may explain it.

    Are you saying that I should be ticketed and fined as a preventive measure against someone else committing a crime against me?
    while I am not saying I agree with the unattended car idling being illegal the answer the police would give is that the vehicle is capable of becoming a dangerous weapon when the driver flees in a high speed chase in a car they care nothing about and stole on the spur of the moment

    the reality is car theft for actual parts and for a large scale profit/organized crime is just that ORGANIZED

    it is not simply a bunch of opportunist morons going out and stealing any car they happen across that is running

    that is not to say that some moron that takes a car like that will not eventually try and sell it to someone for parts or to be stripped or strip it themselves

    but more than likely what they will do with it is "go ridin' " and that means getting wasted and riding around beating the hell of a car they don't give a $#@! about

    and when they are done they will trade it to some even bigger loser that will do the same until the car gives out, gets wrecked out or gets pulled over most likely after a dangerous high speed chase

    people that actually steal cars in an ORGANIZED manner are not looking to get in a high speed chase and to tear the car up doing so and of course they are not looking to get caught

    those that will take a car as a crime of simple opportunity obviously are not known for having the best impulse control nor are they known for making the most rational split second decisions like "high speed chase or just pull over"

    the police have and do find that those that do auto thefts of opportunity are highly likely to also get in a dangerous high speed chase

    but the reality is that trying to pass laws against otherwise law abiding people to try and prevent obvious complete and total opportunist pieces of $#@! from doing crime is a pretty overall lazy method of law enforcement and it more shows the failures of the justice system where stealing a car and even getting in a high speed chase is something that many people do not think twice about doing when they get the chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Mackey View Post
    My parents should have gotten countless tickets back in the day. Well before cars got warm as quick as they do now, they constantly warmed the car up in the winter time when I was little. Hell I see people leave their cars running when they go into gas stations or convenience stores today. If a thief wants to steal your car, they will. I don't think someone is more likely to hop into your car and take off just because it's running.

    hell this is what the entire show bait car is about

    the entire show is nothing but total $#@!ing criminal opportunist that will steal anything and everything that is not bolted down or welded to something

    most of the time those pieces of $#@! that hop in those cars have no $#@!ing clue what they are going to do with that car in 10 minutes from when they steal it much less a day later

    they are not heading to the chop shop with that beat to $#@! daewoo laganze that no chop shop on earth would take for free

    they are calling their $#@!ing loser friends to load up and get loaded and drive around smashing into $#@! and maybe stealing some more $#@! along the way or jacking someone

    Quote Originally Posted by BrothaHorn View Post
    Wow.

    Then you might as well arrest anyone who has had a couple of beers, because they MIGHT drive intoxicated. And we all know how expensive and dangerous those are. As well as stupid.
    this has actually happened many times including in Texas the TABC has at times done a number of high profile and highly questionable "stings" like this including one where I believe the person was a hotel guest in the hotel bar and because they had the rental car keys on them they were suspected of being a potential DWI and arrested

    I can't remember the exact details, but it was beyond stupid (which is completely believable with the TABC) and it was beyond many of the other cases where they made mass arrest of drunk people in bars and in bar parking lots based on the assumption that they had not proven they had an alternate means of transportation therefor they were in fact going to drive home drunk because it could be shown they had access to a vehicle

    generally when those people get a decent lawyer and get in front of a decent judge (not always a given) the TABC gets thrashed in court, but in some cases the people end up $#@!ed and with a PI or something slightly above a PI on their record

  • #50
    i think the purpose of the law is less preventing intentional theft and more preventing attractive nuisances. same reason you have to fence your pool.

    also with automatic transmissions and idiot operators being what they are, the car could move itself.

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