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Thread: advice for craps first-timer?

  1. #51
    the godfather HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf's Avatar
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    yes, two collects total, doesn't matter if it's two fives, a six and an eight, whatever. after that, you press the number that gets hit.

    the reasoning is to be ~even before you start pressing, and you basically use house money to get your bets up, then collect on that.

  • #52
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    Thank you sir.

    Do you live in LA? I'd gotten that vibe on another thread.

  • #53
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    yes, your vibe reading skills are sharp.

  • #54
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    I have never made money on craps.

    Well, I was in South Lake Tahoe this weekend and decided "What the hell, let's use HG's method"

    Min bet was $10, so I started with $300. Never played the pass line (that was a first for me) and followed the method to the T. Played a LONG time (didn't run out of money as quickly as I usually do on craps). Was up a little and down a little, back and forth for a long time and then...












    ... then we got 4 or 5 very $#@!ty shooters in a row. They would 7-out 1 or 2 rolls after the point was on and I lost $200 in a blink ($32 or $34 on the 'inside' adds up quick when losing). Walked away with $100 out of my $300 and a horrible feeling... why can't I ever make money on craps?
    I know the whole point of the HG method is to try to play a long time and to try and play with the house's money, and that just like I hit a bad streak, I could have hit a good streak and made some bank. I guess craps is just not the game for me. $#@!.

  • #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandIceSIP
    I have never made money on craps.

    Well, I was in South Lake Tahoe this weekend and decided "What the hell, let's use HG's method"

    Min bet was $10, so I started with $300. Never played the pass line (that was a first for me) and followed the method to the T. Played a LONG time (didn't run out of money as quickly as I usually do on craps). Was up a little and down a little, back and forth for a long time and then...












    ... then we got 4 or 5 very $#@!ty shooters in a row. They would 7-out 1 or 2 rolls after the point was on and I lost $200 in a blink ($32 or $34 on the 'inside' adds up quick when losing). Walked away with $100 out of my $300 and a horrible feeling... why can't I ever make money on craps?
    I know the whole point of the HG method is to try to play a long time and to try and play with the house's money, and that just like I hit a bad streak, I could have hit a good streak and made some bank. I guess craps is just not the game for me. $#@!.
    It seems to me like craps is the ultimate game of runs. See my original posts in this thread. Before I knew about the system, I went to Shreveport and played pass line + odds, which is supposedly one of the best bets in a casino, and got absolutely murdered because the table happened to be on a cold streak when I stepped up.

  • #56
    the godfather HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf's Avatar
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    i know it's tough looking back, but do some quick math and think what your bank roll would look like if you played a different way, your old way, whatever.

    put $10 on the line.
    come out is 9.
    put $20 behind the line. put $12 on 6 and 8.
    seven out.

    you just lost $54. even if you caught a quick 6 or 8 before the seven-out, you still lost $40. still more than the inside bets. obviously come bets would be different, but then it's more odds, and more money laid out there.

    what really kills me about playing that way (my old way too), is how you press your bet, and what to do with odds. if you have $10 on the line, and $20 behind, and it takes a while, but you hit your point, you get a bunch of money back. well, it seems like you do, but $30 of it was yours (almost the initial bet in the system). so then what? well, a lot of people want to press, so they maybe put $15 on the line, then the roll is a 3. so they lose. then what? or maybe they just put more odds out (if they can). but if they're on a losing streak, they get conservative, and put less behind the line.

    the point is, with this system, and i don't love that word, because it implies you have something "figured out" and you can't lose. it's a strategy, or a method, for craps. my "system" for blackjack is to play correctly, and press my bet when i get hot. same $#@!. a monkey could do it, if taught properly. and that's the point. with this system, there's no "hunches", you play this way, and see what happens. there's no scared money, or "i feel like i'm due" or any of that. and like it or not, most people in casinos need a plan that a monkey could do.

    i've gotten in lots of arguments about it, many times leaning on the table, and sure, a don't bettor can kill it sometimes. but if someone is only playing pass/odds + either a couple place bets or a couple come bets, and thinks that way is "right" and this is "wrong", and they're basing it on some hot streak that's happening right then, then you can't say much. but i will say this...when the table gets hot, everyone's way works, but my way will make you more money, and faster, if you're playing correctly. more importantly, when the table gets cold, my way will keep you in the game longer, and that's the goal of craps.

  • #57
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    Don't bettors don't kill the table. Shooters from "the right side" do.

    Seriously, thast's what i love about craps is that nobody can $#@! it up.

    I don't care who the dice hit or how they bounce off the money.

    It don't make a $#@!.

    They are what they are when they land.

  • #58
    the godfather HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf Shaggy Silver Club HenryGandorf's Avatar
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    i said a don't bettor can kill it sometimes. meaning someone betting on the don't can clean up. this means he can turn to you and explain how his way is the best way. and right then, it might be.

  • #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryGandorf
    i said a don't bettor can kill it sometimes. meaning someone betting on the don't can clean up. this means he can turn to you and explain how his way is the best way. and right then, it might be.
    I gotcha. I'm so used to folks railing against the "don'ts" I'm quick to jump on the defensive.

    I am a don't better, and never have understood the mindset against them. basically if you were a sports bettor, you would bet favorites most of the time.

    When a table cools off, and I am collecting left and right, I just STFU and pick up the chips. I don't look at the shooter either. If the shooter is right next to me, I will always step back so they can see the length of the table and shoot the way they want to. nobody ever said I had to, but I try to be polite at the table.

    I actually love a table where the shooters are hitting a buttload of numbers but missing the points. Then everyone's happy except for you-know-who!

  • #60
    Quote Originally Posted by slorch
    I am a don't better...
    Never would've guessed.

  • #61
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    Just wanted to bump this thread for anyone that hasnt given HG's strategy a try...Took it for $1,200 on a single roll in March and then $1,000 over the course of this past weekend. Buy in with a hundred, and leave with $200 to $300 in profit every time I walked up to a table...Just a $10 table playing usually 3 inside bets for $32 to $34 bucks. Give it a try if you havent already..

  • #62
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    Ok, I am going to be in Vegas on Monday and I am going to try out HG's system. I have only played craps once and have no idea what was going on. So maybe this time I can get it down.

  • #63
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    The dealers or whatever you call them are your friends....Dont be afraid to ask questions...Download a program for your phone if you can. Aw Craps for the iphone is pretty nice as it has alot of useful information.

  • #64
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    I disagree with not playing the pass line. Playing the pass contributes to the overall positive vibe of the table. Not playing is no where as bad as going with the Don't Pass, but you miss out when someone hits the point in the middle of a hot run. nothing beats it when someone hits their 3 or 4th point when you have a decent pass bet with full odds. The guy playing 6 & 8 only gets to sit there while everyone else is high 5-ing each other.

  • #65
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    I disagree with not playing the pass line. Playing the pass contributes to the overall positive vibe of the table. Not playing is no where as bad as going with the Don't Pass, but you miss out when someone hits the point in the middle of a hot run. nothing beats it when someone hits their 3 or 4th point when you have a decent pass bet with full odds. The guy playing 6 & 8 only gets to sit there while everyone else is high 5-ing each other.
    I dont necessarily agree with that, but to each is own....There is nothing like pressing a $12 bet using house money up to $100+ bucks and hit that number multiple more times, while everyone else is waiting for the shooter to hit his 4. I could care less about the vibe.

    Throwing money on the pass line and then backing it up with 5x-10x odds only for the next roll to be a seven, is the story of my life.

  • #66
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    I didn't say that the only strategy is placing a line bet and watching the rest of the action. but then again, I only gamble for entertainment.

  • #67
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    I've been reading and re-reading this thread since we went to Vegas last weekend for the NFL Divisional playoffs. I played craps a bit, but it was my first time playing, so I mostly just wanted to get my bearings. My question on HG's system is this - what exactly is a "full collect"? E.g, after I make my first two collects, then start pressing, when do I take money off the table and how much?

    Also, the iPhone app "Aw Craps" is pretty $#@!ing awesome. Well worth the $1.99 and definitely the best craps app out there.

  • #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by 406W30th View Post
    I've been reading and re-reading this thread since we went to Vegas last weekend for the NFL Divisional playoffs. I played craps a bit, but it was my first time playing, so I mostly just wanted to get my bearings. My question on HG's system is this - what exactly is a "full collect"? E.g, after I make my first two collects, then start pressing, when do I take money off the table and how much?

    Also, the iPhone app "Aw Craps" is pretty $#@!ing awesome. Well worth the $1.99 and definitely the best craps app out there.
    Full collect means don't press your bet - take the money for the hit. I guess HG called it a "full collect" because sometimes when you press your bet you still get to keep a few bucks. You don't ever take the bet itself off the table. Remember - that's just house money working for you. That seven is going to come some time and wipe it all off the board - what you collected before it happened is what it is all about.

  • #69
    Is there a reason to hug the point? What's the difference between doing that and say just betting 6/8/9 no matter what the point is? It seems like that way you wouldn't have to worry about moving bets around based on what point is rolled.

  • #70
    Also, if the table minimum is $10, do you have to play $10 or more on each number, or just $10 in total?

  • #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviledegg View Post
    Also, if the table minimum is $10, do you have to play $10 or more on each number, or just $10 in total?
    10 on each bet( number)

    still $1 for those outstanding sucker bets in the middle though...

  • #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by slorch View Post
    10 on each bet( number)

    still $1 for those outstanding sucker bets in the middle though...
    Actually the minimum bet is $10 for 4/5/9/10 and $12 for 6/8 on a $10 table. The place bet odds pay 9 to 5 for 4/10 , 7 to 5 on 5/9, and 7 to 6 on 6/8.

    The true odds pay 2 to 1 for 4/10 , 3 to 2 on 5/9, and 6 to 5 on 6/8. This is for adding odds to any pass line bet or come bet.

    I've been playing and dealing craps for years. There is no full proof method. There's only aggressive and passive systems. One designed to maximize profit when you get a hot shooter and ones that protect your bankroll to ride out the cold shooters. The latter may not win as much, but will let you play longer and can eek out more wins at smaller profits assuming you make any profit. The former can take home big wins, but can also lose very quickly which sucks if you are trying to have a good time.

  • #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by LonghornEE View Post
    Actually the minimum bet is $10 for 4/5/9/10 and $12 for 6/8 on a $10 table. The place bet odds pay 9 to 5 for 4/10 , 7 to 5 on 5/9, and 7 to 6 on 6/8.

    The true odds pay 2 to 1 for 4/10 , 3 to 2 on 5/9, and 6 to 5 on 6/8. This is for adding odds to any pass line bet or come bet.

    I've been playing and dealing craps for years. There is no full proof method. There's only aggressive and passive systems. One designed to maximize profit when you get a hot shooter and ones that protect your bankroll to ride out the cold shooters. The latter may not win as much, but will let you play longer and can eek out more wins at smaller profits assuming you make any profit. The former can take home big wins, but can also lose very quickly which sucks if you are trying to have a good time.
    $10 is the MINIMUM bet. I seen plenty of yokels walk up there and place $10 on the 6 or 8.

    $12 is the PROPER bet.

    Absolutely agree with the last paragraph. Casinos love "systems."

    Can you tell us where you dealt before?

  • #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by slorch View Post
    $10 is the MINIMUM bet. I seen plenty of yokels walk up there and place $10 on the 6 or 8.

    $12 is the PROPER bet.

    Absolutely agree with the last paragraph. Casinos love "systems."

    Can you tell us where you dealt before?
    True on the min bet, but many houses won't place that bet unless you make it proper. I've never dealt at a true casino, but have dealt for a casino party company for almost 10 years and was partially trained by a former dealer from Reno.

  • #75
    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviledegg View Post
    Is there a reason to hug the point? What's the difference between doing that and say just betting 6/8/9 no matter what the point is? It seems like that way you wouldn't have to worry about moving bets around based on what point is rolled.
    I think it's just superstition combined with making it easier to figure out where your bets are. I've been so drunk before that I've forgotten where my bets are, then I gotta figure out which bets are mine based on placement of the chips. And when you gotta close one eye to make the room stop spinning, it can be hard to figure out where the dealer has been placing your bets.

    Plus it makes you look cooler when you say stuff like "move my nine to the five please."

  • #76
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    To make it simpler, just bet the inside. If the point is an inside number, you are covered. If the point is an outside number then you have to make one more place bet which means you collect one more time on a place bet before playing with house money (and risk one more place bet for that shooter).

  • #77
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    Has anyone run into the issue of a casino preventing you from putting money back on the numbers when the spot changes? I had this happen at Harrah's in New Orleans.

    For instance, 8 is the number, I play 6,7,9 for $17 total. Roller hits 8, I pull my $17 back, and the casino won't let me put the $ back on the table when the new spot is established. Seems ridiculous to me, but they inforced the $#@! out of it. $#@!ed up my entire scheme, and I lost my ass in 15 minutes.

  • #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchCumsteen View Post
    Has anyone run into the issue of a casino preventing you from putting money back on the numbers when the spot changes? I had this happen at Harrah's in New Orleans.

    For instance, 8 is the number, I play 6,7,9 for $17 total. Roller hits 8, I pull my $17 back, and the casino won't let me put the $ back on the table when the new spot is established. Seems ridiculous to me, but they inforced the $#@! out of it. $#@!ed up my entire scheme, and I lost my ass in 15 minutes.
    That makes no sense. The odds bets can be placed at any time. By default those bets are off when the shooter is rolling for a point. You have to tell the dealer you want them working in order for them to be active during that roll. You can take them down at anytime and place them at any time. You must have been drunk and pissed someone off.

  • #79
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchCumsteen View Post
    Has anyone run into the issue of a casino preventing you from putting money back on the numbers when the spot changes? I had this happen at Harrah's in New Orleans.

    For instance, 8 is the number, I play 6,7,9 for $17 total. Roller hits 8, I pull my $17 back, and the casino won't let me put the $ back on the table when the new spot is established. Seems ridiculous to me, but they inforced the $#@! out of it. $#@!ed up my entire scheme, and I lost my ass in 15 minutes.
    Never seen that happen but then again, ain't never been anywhere you can place the 7.

  • #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakahorn View Post
    Never seen that happen but then again, ain't never been anywhere you can place the 7.
    Ha! I missed that. I assume he meant 5,6,9 but it could have been some new bs version like the crapless craps downtown in LV.

  • #81
    Quote Originally Posted by KC-97HORN View Post
    then, with each hit of a number, you press THAT number, as shown below:

    5/9 - 5-15-35 (full collect) - 85-100-150 - 350 (full) - 500 and so on.
    6/8 - 6-12-30 (full collect) - 60 (full) - 120 - 300 (full) - 600 and so on.

    once you get your first full collect, get on the 4 & 10 (or whatever the two you're not on).

    4/10 - 5-15-40 (full) - 100-200-400
    Can someone explain this part of the system in layman terms? This is where I get lost. I'm confused by the pattern of numbers broken up with a "full collect." I think it has to do with odds and pressing, but I suck at math.

    To make sure I understand terms being used here:

    Pressing your bet = doubling your bet on the number that hits with winnings

    Full collect: taking your winnings when a place bet hits (instead of pressing).

    Thanks, this thread rulez.

  • #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchCumsteen View Post
    Has anyone run into the issue of a casino preventing you from putting money back on the numbers when the spot changes? I had this happen at Harrah's in New Orleans.

    For instance, 8 is the number, I play 6,7,9 for $17 total. Roller hits 8, I pull my $17 back, and the casino won't let me put the $ back on the table when the new spot is established. Seems ridiculous to me, but they inforced the $#@! out of it. $#@!ed up my entire scheme, and I lost my ass in 15 minutes.
    This policy is misguided, as far as what a casino should allow. The pass line(come) bet offers a small advantage to the player on the come out roll, but once the point(spot) is established, the casino has the advantage. Some players will forego the comeout roll and make a "put" bet, where they make the bet on a number with odds, without ever having the advantage of the comeout roll.

    Casinos LOVE this!

    This is also the reason you cannot pick up your pass-line(come) wager after the point is established, because the casino has the advantage at that point.

    all that being said, some casinos do not allow the "put" bet, and they should have been consistent with enforcing it. Some dealers struggle/ get pissed off with the constant changing of bets. I say "deal with it." It's their $#@!ing job to take my bets.
    Last edited by slorch; 02-08-2011 at 06:33 AM.

  • #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakahorn View Post
    Never seen that happen but then again, ain't never been anywhere you can place the 7.
    good catch.

    "any 7" is usually a one roll bet that pays 5-1. It should pay 6-1, so there's a 16.6 advantage to the house on that puppy.
    Last edited by slorch; 02-08-2011 at 06:35 AM.

  • #84
    Quote Originally Posted by slorch View Post
    This policy is misguided, as far as what a casino should allow. The pass line(come) bet offers a small advantage to the player on the come out roll, but once the point(spot) is established, the casino has the advantage. Some players will forego the comeout roll and make a "put" bet, where they make the bet on a number with odds, without ever having the advantage of the comeout roll.

    Casinos LOVE this!

    This is also the reason you cannot pick up your pass-line(come) wager after the point is established, because the casino has the advantage at that point.

    all that being said, some casinos do not allow the "put" bet, and they should have been consistent with enforcing it. Some dealers struggle/ get pissed off with the constant changing of bets. I say "deal with it." It's their $#@!ing job to take my bets.
    You're in a $#@!ty casino if you can't manipulate a put. What the hell? Did you have to pay for your drinks, too?

  • #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by capnamerca View Post
    You're in a $#@!ty casino if you can't manipulate a put. What the hell? Did you have to pay for your drinks, too?

    exactly. I didn't say I liked playing there. I've just been in them before. Those are some of the little "indicators" that tell me that place is even tougher on the player than the normal casino odds.
    Last edited by slorch; 02-10-2011 at 12:36 PM.

  • #86
    asshat Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian's Avatar
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    This is coming from a third generation craps player--grandpa married 7 women and took their money to Vegas to perfect his system. He passed it along to my dad while they still spoke who in turn passed on to me.

    You will drink. You will have hot tables. It always ends. My birthright on craps is meant to keep it simple, minimizing risk on 7outs and also from over betting odds. It goes like this:

    Play the pass til the number is established. Then play through the come until maximum 3 more established numbers. $100 passline backed up with $200 odds--regardless the numbers. My dad's amounts are obviously different.

    I've gambled with my dad doing differently (pushing odds, placing numbers, etc.) and 100% of the time it worked out worse for me given the same rolls applicable to us both. The beauty therefore is not just in the simplicity, but in the loss minimization on the same rolls (getting paid on 7outs high relative to bet) relative to others. You can drink, jaw with the stickmen and hold a lady's hand all with grace and drunken ease.

    I've got war stories aplenty for another time. Backing up odds too much is very dangerous--be forewarned.

  • #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Houstonian View Post
    This is coming from a third generation craps player--grandpa married 7 women and took their money to Vegas to perfect his system. He passed it along to my dad while they still spoke who in turn passed on to me.

    You will drink. You will have hot tables. It always ends. My birthright on craps is meant to keep it simple, minimizing risk on 7outs and also from over betting odds. It goes like this:

    Play the pass til the number is established. Then play through the come until maximum 3 more established numbers. $100 passline backed up with $200 odds--regardless the numbers. My dad's amounts are obviously different.

    I've gambled with my dad doing differently (pushing odds, placing numbers, etc.) and 100% of the time it worked out worse for me given the same rolls applicable to us both. The beauty therefore is not just in the simplicity, but in the loss minimization on the same rolls (getting paid on 7outs high relative to bet) relative to others. You can drink, jaw with the stickmen and hold a lady's hand all with grace and drunken ease.

    I've got war stories aplenty for another time. Backing up odds too much is very dangerous--be forewarned.
    So your system is play the pass and come up to a max of four bets, double odds on all bets.

    Wow, NEVER would have thought of that one.

  • #88
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    Why would one limit their odds to "double" the passline/ come bet? The "odds" bet is the best bet( mathematically) in the casino. If you're winning, press it up.

    I play a very conservative game with regard to the number of bets I have on the table. It's been my experience that fluctuating the "odds" on my bets is the best way to leave the table a winner. Limiting that to 2X odds is something that favors the casino in the long run. There's a reason the better, or more player friendly gaming establishments offer 20X and even 100X odds. the trick is getting ahead to where making those bets doesn't destroy your bankroll.

  • #89
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    Played this system in Vegas this weekend and made 900. Never won on craps before. Thanks thread! By the way, aria is beautiful and they have a new type of ventilation system that minimizes the smoke. Good deal

  • #90
    asshat Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakahorn View Post
    So your system is play the pass and come up to a max of four bets, double odds on all bets.

    Wow, NEVER would have thought of that one.
    It's what wins me money and minimizes losses on 7outs. But it also depends on your goals. BTW- you sound like a fun guy to gamble with. What with the sarcasm and all.

    I'm open to being persuaded a more complicated system is more effective. Please tell me your stories and I'll gladly change.

  • #91
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    houstonian - i haven't really been following your posts/strategy, but how would a pass line bet + 4 number bets (come bets?) all with odds minimize your seven out exposure? because you only have double odds? because you constantly have a bet on the come? seems like you're spreading yourself pretty thin.

    obviously i'm not a pass/come bettor, but even the systems i like betting that way keep you to 3 total numbers, not 4 or in your case 5.

  • #92
    Quote Originally Posted by CurlyDumps View Post
    Can someone explain this part of the system in layman terms? This is where I get lost. I'm confused by the pattern of numbers broken up with a "full collect."
    Good question. Anyone?

    Placing $5 on 5/9 would win $7. How do you press 5+7 into a $15 bet?
    Last edited by benson32; 02-18-2011 at 09:34 PM.

  • #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by benson32 View Post
    Good question. Anyone?

    Placing $5 on 5/9 would win $7. How do you press 5+7 into a $15 bet?
    hit the 5 or 9 twice(pressing $5 the first time) or hit it once and drop $3 to the dealer.

  • #94
    So 15 is just an arbitrary number? I don't see any sort of logical pattern (e.g., 5-10-20-45-105-250...)

    If you press a $5 bet on 5 will the dealer ask you for $3? Or is this something the player needs to remember?

  • #95
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    it's not completely arbitrary, it's power-pressing. going station to station is ok, but this system aggressively uses your winnings to boost your bets up quicker than normal, so you can cash in bigger if your numbers hit.

    on the 5/9, you go from 5 to 15 to 35 to 85 pretty quick. just "pressing" a unit or even 2 units would take you forever and would seldom happen.

    so yes, to answer your question, after your first two collects (on any numbers), if a 5/9 hits, just say "make it fifteen" and drop them three singles. if you don't, they'll ask you for them. if you play the system for any length of time, you'll memorize them. if you make it $35, you'll get one back.

    with 6/8, when you press to $12, you'll get one back, then when you go to $30, you'll have to drop four.

    using this system essentially gets you even (~$5) after two hits, and basically that maxes out your downside (give or take a few more) throughout the life of that roll.

  • #96
    asshat Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian might be a clever chap. or know the right people. know what i mean, nudge nudge? Houstonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryGandorf View Post
    houstonian - i haven't really been following your posts/strategy, but how would a pass line bet + 4 number bets (come bets?) all with odds minimize your seven out exposure? because you only have double odds? because you constantly have a bet on the come? seems like you're spreading yourself pretty thin.

    obviously i'm not a pass/come bettor, but even the systems i like betting that way keep you to 3 total numbers, not 4 or in your case 5.
    I only play through the come 3 times for a total of 4 bets, including my first pass line bet. The reason it minimizes 7out exposure is essentially the same reason you play don't pass. My come bets get paid even money on the 7outs (and 11s, which is nice) which other "place" bettors and non-come bettors don't win. After a number is established I'm still hedging against 7out and still lay odds or push if I get a good number. So yeah, like you said--because you constantly have a bet on the come.

    But in practice, I rarely establish 4 numbers. My experiences in craps is what my old man told me "you pass the dice a lot more than you hold 'em". So in the short runs (which are by far the rule, no matter what anyone says) I'll get that little hedge ($100-$500 back) after 2 numbers are established, but then get paid on my come through the 7out and the occasional 11. However, on the long runs I'll make good money on my odds because I'll start to press.

    A lot of the other system talk deals with placing and buying. Because short rolls are the standard, "place" bets and "buying numbers" are losers more often that not. While placing their bet they've lost out on collecting on a more likely result (7out). But if you're betting through the come you're ok. Snake eyes suck, though.

    The double odds on my come bet plays a part, too. Because the house knows that the rolls tend to be short before a 7out, people who stack odds just lose them more often than they win. It's the hard truth. However, if the odds are proportional to the hedge (the come), then you haven't lost as much proportionally and can stick around the table while other folks are calling for markers or asking directions for the ATM.

    My variations are the following:
    1. If the table runs real hot, I'll press odds;
    2. If the table is dead and needs energy, I'll toss a coin for the stickmen to split up on the hardways for themselves and for me;
    3. If it's real bad, I'll yo for the stickmen and for me;
    4. If it's real quiet, I'll starting singing to the music playing out loud.

    Never do:
    1. Don't pass;
    2. One-time bets.

    3 weeks ago I went to l'Auberge and when I found out my GF was a first-time roller, I gave her the bones. Walked away about $10 grand later. And I still tipped well enough the lady pit boss didn't mind me hollering "for the boys!" That's what makes craps fun.

  • #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by benson32 View Post
    So 15 is just an arbitrary number? I don't see any sort of logical pattern (e.g., 5-10-20-45-105-250...)

    If you press a $5 bet on 5 will the dealer ask you for $3? Or is this something the player needs to remember?
    You can tell the dealer, "press me up one unit." They will know $5 is your basic unit, so they will make your place bet $10 and give you $2 change, as the initial winning bet pays $7.

    When you say, "press me up to $15," the dealer will similary respond, "Drop me $3," so he/ she can book the bet.( You started with 5, the bet pays 7, and you need 3 to get to 15.)

  • #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houstonian View Post
    Never do:
    1. Don't pass;
    .
    I play the don'ts, and actually have fun along with the rest of the table. I STFU and give adjacent players plenty of room to shoot( I often take a step back from the rail, just to be sure.) I never call for 7's and I never gloat/ blame players for how the dice turn out. The same cannot be said for many "right way" bettors.

  • #99
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    I play a system similar to Houstonian's, but I keep laying come bets with max odds if possible (which are usually x3, x4, x5 where I play), every time a point is established. In practice, I rarely get more than a max of 3 numbers covered, but every now and then I'll get to a "full house" with every number covered with a come bet with odds (including the original pass bet). Then, I win on every throw of the dice, as long as the shooter doesn't 7 out. After a couple of hits, I'll start increasing the amount of the come (and odds) bets. This system requires a large bank, but is fun as $#@!, and will also pay off under the same circumstance as HG's system, and also if the shooter gets on a roll of hitting his points, which can be fun also.

    That all being said, I do agree with Slorch in that no system can beat the house in the long run. I'm happy if I leave the table with a good buzz, cab fair back to the airport, and few new acquaintances.
    Last edited by Fightin' Buck; 02-19-2011 at 09:38 PM. Reason: calculating the odds

  • #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Houstonian View Post
    I only play through the come 3 times for a total of 4 bets, including my first pass line bet. The reason it minimizes 7out exposure is essentially the same reason you play don't pass. My come bets get paid even money on the 7outs (and 11s, which is nice) which other "place" bettors and non-come bettors don't win. After a number is established I'm still hedging against 7out and still lay odds or push if I get a good number. So yeah, like you said--because you constantly have a bet on the come.

    But in practice, I rarely establish 4 numbers. My experiences in craps is what my old man told me "you pass the dice a lot more than you hold 'em". So in the short runs (which are by far the rule, no matter what anyone says) I'll get that little hedge ($100-$500 back) after 2 numbers are established, but then get paid on my come through the 7out and the occasional 11. However, on the long runs I'll make good money on my odds because I'll start to press.

    A lot of the other system talk deals with placing and buying. Because short rolls are the standard, "place" bets and "buying numbers" are losers more often that not. While placing their bet they've lost out on collecting on a more likely result (7out). But if you're betting through the come you're ok. Snake eyes suck, though.

    The double odds on my come bet plays a part, too. Because the house knows that the rolls tend to be short before a 7out, people who stack odds just lose them more often than they win. It's the hard truth. However, if the odds are proportional to the hedge (the come), then you haven't lost as much proportionally and can stick around the table while other folks are calling for markers or asking directions for the ATM.

    My variations are the following:
    1. If the table runs real hot, I'll press odds;
    2. If the table is dead and needs energy, I'll toss a coin for the stickmen to split up on the hardways for themselves and for me;
    3. If it's real bad, I'll yo for the stickmen and for me;
    4. If it's real quiet, I'll starting singing to the music playing out loud.

    Never do:
    1. Don't pass;
    2. One-time bets.

    3 weeks ago I went to l'Auberge and when I found out my GF was a first-time roller, I gave her the bones. Walked away about $10 grand later. And I still tipped well enough the lady pit boss didn't mind me hollering "for the boys!" That's what makes craps fun.
    I know that it's shaggy, and we're all $#@!s and whatnot. But there's no way to say this without sounding like an $#@!.

    You suck at math.

    I'm glad you've hit some big winners, but "short rolls" have absolutely nothing to do with what the odds say the dice will do on the next roll, and what your bets should be based on what the payouts are on a particular bet.

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